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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

types of rope

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miketen
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/16/2005 : 21:16:48

I'm replacing the rigging on my boat so now its down to types of rope. Its between sta-set and sta-set x. new england only recommends sta-set x for halyards and not for the sheets and main. Has any one used sta-set x on these? If so how do you like/ dislike

thanks

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2005 : 21:36:10

Mike:

I use Staset for my halyards. It has a tensile strength of 3,000 lbs which is about the strength of the wire halyards that your boat came with. The Staset-X is much stronger, about 4,400 lbs, but when I compared them together, the Staset-X felt stiffer and not as easy to handle. I've had mine on now for 3 years and they've been great.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 12:15:26

It is about stretch. If you use sail controls to flatten your sails in heavy air then you want those controls to have all the effect possible. If your halyard stretches and your main and headsail luffs generate big pockets (which power up your sails) then you will have negated the sail trim and be over powered. Halyards for anything other than a spinnaker should have as little stretch as your wallet can afford. (Spinnaker halyards should stretch so the sail does not blow out in a gust.) Sta-set x is now about the least you would want for a halyard. Many of us use more hightech lines with less stretch. layline.com is wonderful about explaining this all. Call them and they will be happy to visit.
Technology is a progression, when Sta-set was introduced it was a low stretch halyard but has been eclipsed buy quite a bit. If you get off the water when it pipes up then it does not matter, and of course we are talking matters of degrees. Sta-set is one hell of a lot better than trophy braid for a halyard!

As for stiffness, the winch handles the line you should just be tailing it. My super whatever halyard, (who can remember these names?) Seems stiff but when I use it it is fine.
Call Layline you will be glad you did.

Edited by - on

clayC
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 12:54:36

I am replaceing My rigging as well. should I loose the the wire halyard and just run rope? I was a bit concerned with the conection.

Clay C

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miketen
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 13:48:45

I just ordered new halyards from layline. Replacing the wire with sta set-x plus. Go to www.layline.com It's going to be nice to sit on my boat and not have to listen to the wire hitting the mast.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 13:51:09

Clay C,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">should I loose the the wire halyard and just run rope?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yes. Wire-to-rope halyards, especially with the interlocked loops holding them together, are so last century.

The modern, synthetic, high tech halyard materials are as strong and low stretch as the wire/rope, are easier to handle, don't require special dual-groove (in the case of woven splices) hardened sheeves, can be winched, cleated, or clutched at any point along their length, don't develop meathooks, put less weight aloft, and probably other advantages which others will be pointing out here shortly.

Some determined individuals have been able to defeat some of these advantages by partially stripping the cover, or splicing fat tails to thin standing (loaded) sections.

-- Leon Sisson

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pjeffarch
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 14:21:34

All rope is better as stated; just be sure to get the right new sheeves for the right rope size (5/16 or 3/8?).

Edited by - on

miketen
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 18:19:01

I'm replacing my wire with 1/4 T-900 do i need to change the sheaves?

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Loren H.
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 19:14:39

There are no ropes on my boat.

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 21:44:24

If you are a real squarerigger sailor, I believe the only rope on a sailing vessel is the Bellrope, all others are lines, designated by their usage.---Do I remember correctly? (But then what about the boltropes?)Ron Orion srsk SW FL

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2005 : 21:53:57

Heh.... Go over to sailinganarchy and post a question about what ROPE to use on your sails and you'll be keelhauled.

Tough crowd over there.

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matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2005 : 06:33:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 It is about stretch. If you use sail controls to flatten your sails in heavy air then you want those controls to have all the effect possible. If your halyard stretches and your main and headsail luffs generate big pockets (which power up your sails) then you will have negated the sail trim and be over powered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've sailed many times in 25-30 knot winds and I haven't noticed any stretching of my statset halyards. Certainly not enough to affect my sail trim or to cause my boat to be overpowered. In any event, staset is low-stretch enough to be recommended for halyard use by [url="http://www.neropes.com/pleasure_marine/default.htm"]New England Ropes[/url]. They have some good graphs showing the difference in line stretch and strength between the products.

I agree that you want the lowest stretch possible. The problem I had with the X was the stiffness. I ordered a piece 3 years ago from Sailnet. It was so stiff you could hold out a 2 foot piece of it almost strait out. It would have been a nightmare to coil up once tied off and never would have laid right. I sent it back and got the staset. Maybe Sailnet sent me a bad piece of rope (and it is called rope until you put it on the boat). The next time I'm in a West Marine store I'll check out the X again.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2005 : 10:07:24

Actually John, I believe it's called "rope" when it's on the spool. When a piece is cut off the spool it becomes "line" and remains so until given a specific title on the boat (docking line, sheet, halyard etc.)
Derek

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matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2005 : 10:37:57

Derek:

If a cowboy cuts a piece of rope off a spool to make a lariat, then it's a rope right? If I borrow that lariat from the cowboy and make a spinnaker sheet out of it then when did it become a line? It becomes a line when I take it to the boat!

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miketen
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2005 : 11:15:34

mmmm,
Excuse me guys! Slight typo and I have to walk the plank. On the other side all the lines for by boat came from New England ROPES. Maybe some one should tell them their name is wrong.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2005 : 11:22:19

It's a good beer drinking discussion!

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2005 : 11:36:44

On the other hand...the expression "he knows the ropes" comes from the old sailing ships. When a seaman knew what all the ropes (lines) were for, and just as importantly where each was cleated (or belayed) then he "knew the ropes" and could be promoted to Able Seaman.
BTW - the tall ship Elyssain Galveston has 214 individual lines...
Derek
Now I think I'll have a beer...!

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2005 : 22:36:31

At the risk of repeating what has already been stated I skipped reading a bunch of the posts above. However, you might want to check with Layline.com - get their catalog, and read some of their studies and materials online. They have, in most cases, an unbias opinion regarding dozens of different line types.

In general, I find that Sta-set and SSx stretch a fairly decent amount when used for halyards. Which, if racing can be a big deal. If your just cruising, you can always tighten the halyard after a half hour... (keep in mind, they only stretch so far)

As for durability and life, they are excellent lines; as are most any line available today.

dw

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2005 : 16:38:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by matsche
 (and it is called rope until you put it on the boat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A line has a specific function on a boat, and can be made of rope or wire (cable). I went to all-rope (the material) halyards (the lines) using some high-tech stuff Catalina Direct was selling. The advantage to me is that the genoa halyard (with a roller furler) is under constant high tension for the entire season, and I have not seen evidence of it stretching a single inch in any of its three seasons. (I'd see it where the drum is shackled to the stem fitting.)

I don't know whether 1/4" rope can work in the standard masthead sheaves (designed for wire)--I was pretty sure my new 5/16ths wouldn't, so I got the custom-made sheaves from Belpat Marine--discussed many times here. CD claims to have the right sheaves now, but I recall reports that they're still too small in diameter to keep the halyards from chafing on the casting. Has anyone found otherwise?

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seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2005 : 22:07:33

Rope, line, sheet! Uncut in store: 'spool of rope'. Cut & onboard: 'length of line'. When does it become a 'sheet'?

Bob

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2005 : 22:27:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by seastream
 Rope, line, sheet! Uncut in store: 'spool of rope'. Cut & onboard: 'length of line'. When does it become a 'sheet'?

Bob
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
When it hauls in a sail.
"being the sheet"
Last Sunday morning I took my Hobie 17 for its first sail of the season, I was doing well with it, (I am new to cats) and thought I would sail back into the club and buzz the beach. I was close reaching at a good clip and the shackle that held the mainsail clew to the boom broke. All I could do was kneel in the center of the tramp and grab the foot of the sail as close to the clew as possible and be the sheet (and the boom). It took about 10 minutes to beach it, dealing with the centerboards and the rudders before hitting the beach while maintaining forward motion was interesting and this was at about 7:00 in the morning so no one saw how amazing I was!!!!! Now my sheet (shoulder and back) hurts.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 06/21/2005 22:29:10

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