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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Swing keel Bolt Let go.

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sodonnell
1st Mate

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76 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/16/2005 : 20:15:53

I found that I couldn't get out of the slip today. Stuck Solid!
Long story short, the bolt in the lower part of the keel that holds the cable let go.
Got the boatyard to give me a lift out and it's sitting on blocks for the moment.

I know CD has a retrofit kit, but I'm wondering if anyone else has tackled this project.

I'm wondering if anyone has found a better solution besides just putting a new bolt into the keel.
I keep the boat in salt water all season, so I can imagine a new bolt may not be the best option.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2005 : 22:30:26

I'd just get the retrofit kit... should be good for a long time...
probably inspect/renew every 5 years or so.
Be sure to use never-seize or similar compounding when you put it in.

BTW... where did the original bolt fail? I've heard they sometimes break at the 'tang' (flat part)... others have been known to fail right at the point where it meets the keel probably due to crevice corrosion.

Edited by - on

ddlyle
Captain

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302 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2005 : 09:38:40

sodonnell,
Do you keep zincs on your keel?

Edited by - on

sodonnell
1st Mate

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76 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2005 : 10:12:27

Yes I do.

Edited by - on

sodonnell
1st Mate

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76 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2005 : 10:17:21

I forgot to answer the original question.
It broke off right at the flat part of the bolt.
I'm going down today to take a better look.
I wonder what the best way to fix this is.
Do I try to drill and reuse the original location?
Do I/can I fill it with another material and then re-tap it?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2005 : 11:00:55

Catalina Direct has redesigned the bolt, when you get it you will be impressed and reassured. Follow their instructions, do not reinvent the wheel, it is a very old wheel.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2005 : 12:05:04

>"Do I try to drill and reuse the original location?"

That is the best option. If you can grind a flat on the remaining bolt, and back it out with vice-grips or such... all the better.

If you can't back it out, grind flat, center punch and stay square so you don't damage the threads. You probably want to use a series of several drills... small to larger and then go with a good bolt extractor. The right speed and plenty of cutter pressure are essential for drilling stainless. If you can find them, left-handed drills are a plus for this kind of work.

Take your time. Get good quality drill bits... in my experience, the cheap Asian knockoffs simply won't "cut it" when drilling stainless. Having some machining fluid like 'rapid tap' handy may be a very helpful.

>"It broke off right at the flat part of the bolt."

This happens if the flat on the bolt is at an angle to the fitting on the cable... it puts the system in in a bind and 'pop'. The redesigned fitting has a retaining pin that prevents this from happening.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2005 : 12:19:39

sodonnell,

My 1979 C-25 w/swing keel seems to have been in tropical saltwater its entire life. Here are a few observations and suggestions based on my 10 or so years experience with it.

On my keel, and several others I've read about here, the original keel lifting bolt was installed with the threads saturated in red Loc-Tite(sp?). When I removed my one-piece bolt, it was so hard to turn, I was very concerned that it would twist off.

My experience as a professional mechanic has been that red Loc-Tite is darn near permanent. That's not appropriate for C-25 keel lifting bolts, especially in quanities large enough to seal out saltwater. I'm very fond of Never-Sieze (molybdinum dysulfide paste?) on threads. However, I would be concerned about it washing out under water, leaving the threads vulnerable to salt corrosion. When I install stainless steel bolts below the waterline, I completely fill the threads with polysulfide sealant.

Every couple of years, I replace the four stainless steel swing keel hanger bolts, lift cable, and the bolt in question which attaches the cable to the keel. Stainless steel doesn't really belong underwater, but that's what we're more or less stuck with from the factory.

Regarding your unfortunate situation:

Yes, you have to reuse the original lifting bolt location. You can't move the hole 3/4" fwd or aft. It has to line up with the turning ball. One determined C-25 owner drilled that hole all the way through the keel, ground a perpendicular notch where the hole came out, and used a long threaded stainless steel rod to attach the newer cable pivot.

I'd suggest you first try to save the existing threads, or failing that, drill and tap another inch or so deeper, and install a longer bolt (along with the new attachment hardware).

In attempting to extract your broken off bolt, I'm sure you realize that you're up against quite a challenge. Center drilling and using a bolt extractor works fine in theory. However, in my experience although it's worth a try, don't get your hopes up. I've found it very difficult to get the pilot hole dead center and parallel to the broken bolt. If that hole isn't lined up just right, then things are off to a bad start. So invest some extra time and attention into that. Whatever you do, don't snap off a hardened bolt extractor in the broken bolt. (And you never know how brittle those things are until you break one!) The same goes for taps.

Since your threads are unlikely to turn easily, I expect you'll have to resort to some variation of drilling the broken bolt out. In a perfect world, the pilot drill goes right down the centerline of the bolt. Subsequent larger drillbits stay on the centerline. The last drillbit, equal to the root diameter of the threads, leaves behind only a coil spring of old threads, which can then be teased out with a heavy duty dental pick.

A somewhat more likely scenario is that as you go up in drill sizes, you realize you're going to break out one side of the bolt. At that point, I suggest switching to a stone or carbide burr in a small die grinder (Dremel). Continue towards the coil-spring-of-threads goal.

You might check around to see of there's some way to encourage the Loc-Tite to release (heat, solvents, etc.).

Even if you are able to clean out the hole with "almost" no damage to the female threads, I suggest you drill and tap deeper and install a longer bolt anyway.

Let us know if you need additional clarification on any of this. And of course let us know how it goes, so that we can add your experience to our pool of C-25 knowledge.

Good luck!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2005 : 10:29:36

I'd like to replace the keel eye on my boat. What I'm hearing is that the original eye is glued in place with loc tite. Should I try to just unscrew the original eye or apply heat first? I'd hate to break the thing off.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2005 : 20:42:53

"...try to just unscrew the original eye or apply heat first?"

I 'prepared' mine for several days with cycles of gentle heating and soaking with PB-Blaster.

Nonetheless, it was still a nerve-wracking moment when applying torque... will it break or back out ok? (It came out ok).

Don't try to unscrew it all the way in one motion, debris in the threads can bind up tight.

Every quarter turn or so I'd go a little bit back (clockwise) to help prevent thread jamming. The new style fitting has a retaining pin to keep if from backing out so you can use never-seize on the threads when assembling with the new bolt.

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.