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Norsk Dakota
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/18/2005 : 23:11:53

I have an '86 SK and the slip I keep the boat in requires me to keep the keel up while in the harbor. I don't like the idea of lowering and raising the keel each time I go sailing. Other than performance, do you experienced "Swingers" see any problems with me leaving my keel up for prolonged periods, even when sailing? Your words of wisdom are appreciated.

Edited by - on

ddlyle
Captain

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302 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2005 : 23:28:32

There are a few reasons to keep it up.
When not in use, the keel assembly is more secure when up (less motion).
If you don't mind cranking it up (and the winch is in good shape) there will also be less growth on your cable (hence less performance loss).
I wouldn't recommend sailing with it up unless it is moderate wind and you have to get off a sand bar. No heavy wind!
And motoring with the keel up is okay.
Some folks like to sail downwind with the keel up thinking it will give them a speed boost.
I think it is marginal at best and risky.
Aside from the leeward motion which is something to consider, and not desirable.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2005 : 23:33:29

Since Catalina recommends leaving them cranked up when on the mooring or at the dock, I really don't see a big issue if your cable and attachments are in good condition.

Sailing or even motoring with the keel up doesn't work too well.

Edited by - ClamBeach on 07/20/2005 00:18:27

bnpirate
1st Mate

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33 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2005 : 00:12:40

i usually leave my keel down. i went out this weekend in 20 to 25 knot winds and couldn't tack! the boat would get almost head to wind and then fall back to leeward. I couldn't figure it out so I broad reached to the anchorage that was going to be my final destination for the night. once anchored i decided to raise my keel since I was in some thin water. Well to make a long story short I found the keel already up. yes the light bulb apeared above my head.

so no I would not recomend sailing with the keel up.

Brian
83 sr/sk
Bella

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2005 : 00:55:50

Norsk Dakota,

I agree with the others that it's best to sail with the keel all the way down whenever practical to do so. A swing keel isn't really the same thing as a centerboard, and is not intended to be moved to adjust the feel of the helm, etc.

Having said that, I frequently have to sail with my keel up. The last mile or so returning to my neighborhood, the water depth varies from maybe 5' down to less than 4', and that area is almost always dead upwind, but there's lots of room to tack. What I frequently do, is lower the jib, raise the keel, and proceed to tack up wind under main alone.

I find that the boat sails surprisingly well in this low performance configuration, all things considered. Although it's of course not as stiff as it would be with the keel all the way down, that's still a lot of ballast below the waterline. I haven't felt uneasy about sailing with the keel up in light air. In stronger breezes, it just requires flying a more conservative sail plan than could be carried with the keel down. Pointing ability suffers of course, but it's not like the boat can't go to windward. The difference feels to me like tacking through maybe 110 degrees instead of 90 degrees.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2005 : 00:18:16

I'll have to agree with the other skippers about sailing with the keel up... it sucks! It's not as much of a performance issue with me as it is a control issue.
I had never given consideration to the growth factor on the line if it's left down while docked or moored. Now I think I'll be cranking her up once in a while to clean off the gunk! I had always thought it better to let her hang most of the time to relieve the continuous tension on the cable. (It can't fall while I'm not onboard if it's down) I also agree that it is not a good thing if the keel is subject to lateral movement for prolonged periods. Either way... I love my vessel!

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2005 : 08:07:17

The concept of "leeway" will become much clearer to you if you sail with the keel up. That is; the tendency to be pushed excessively sideways when on a beam reach. I learned all about the concept when, keel up, I sailed into contact with, instead of around as I had planned, a bridge support on the ICW.

My advice...keel down when under sail.

Steve

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2005 : 14:41:17

I have found that with the keel up the center of gravity for the hull moves considerably aft and impairs speed. I discovered this coming out of a shallow docking area and having left the keel up began an overnight motor to Sault Ste Marie 17 miles away. The C25 tends to roll a lot with the keel up and I was surprised at how slow we were going barely 4 kts at almost full throtle I lowered the keel and the boat smoothed out and sped up by almost 2 kts. Keep the Keel down as much as possible. If there is a proper fit in the slot there should not be any wobble. there will be a strain on the cable and I have heard reports from C25 owners that the cable let go at a mooring slamming down and damaging the slot.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2005 : 15:27:36

Keel up is great downwind - Bad upwind. Moving the center of gravity aft keeps the bow from digging in downwind. I'd only go about 1/2 way up though, as the keel is still needed to maintain stability.

We leave our keel down at the dock, and rarely raise it but we are also in Freshwater. The winch and cable are made to hold that weight. Just make sure to take to pressure off the cable by lowering it to the ground if on jack stands or to the cradle or trailer if that is where you keep the boat when out of the water.

Be sure to perform routine inspections and do the preventative maintenance, changing the cable and turning ball once every 3 to 5 years. Maybe more often in saltwater.

Edited by - Champipple on 07/27/2005 15:29:32

Esteban
Navigator

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139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2005 : 17:30:08

I'm of the opinion that that the keel must be in the fully down position anytime the boat is moving either by sail or motor. The keel needs the support of the trunk for lateral movement - and if we think back a bit - I believe the swing keel was designed for trailering purposes only!! It is not a centerboard. Clearing shallow areas and motoring in and out of the marina sounds ok to me with the keel up or in between, as long as the boat is not rocking too much. But for sailing - it's like being pregneant (a subject I don't know much about); your keel is either down all the way, or up all the way. It's not a little bit down or a little bit pregneant.

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