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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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What's this pipe for?

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Cactus Jack
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/23/2005 : 16:09:56

I have a 1980 C25. In the bottom of the bilge, right under the swing keel winch, there is a pipe of about 1" diameter running forward out of the bilge, glassed in alongside the CB trunk. Can anyone tell me what this pipe is for, and where it leads? I'm fighting numerous water leaks, all from above the waterline, I think (hope!). I bailed a lot of water out of the bilge, and found that more water kept coming in through this pipe. The water does not smell nor taste like salt water, so I'm fairly certain it's not coming in through a hull breach.

Thanks in advance,
Jack

C25 "Zephyr"
Palm Harbor, FL

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2005 : 16:29:04

Sounds like the manual bilge pump hose from the cockpit mounted pump. Look under the lazerette lid, you will find the bilge pump there on the inside of the cockpit wall, is it that hose?

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Cactus Jack
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2005 : 17:11:51

fhopper - There is no pump mounted in the lazerette. There IS a manual bilge pump on board that may have been mounted there at some time; there are several holes in the cockpit side of the port lazerette.

The pipe in question is at the bottom of the locker right under the CB winch. It runs through the forward bulkhead of that locker, towards the FRONT of the boat. Could it possibly run into a space between the cabin sole and the outter hull? Is that why there SHOULD be a bilge pump attached there?

Thanks,
Jack

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2005 : 13:08:44

yep

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Cactus Jack
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2005 : 21:49:28

Well, I'm getting closer to figuring this thing out. I believe that the pipe is for water between the cabin sole and the hull to drain towards the aft into what I now believe is the bilge (the lowest area under the CB winch, just aft of the companionway ladder). I called Catalina, and although the person I spoke with was not 100% certain, this is how she explained it.

So, if I add a bilge pump, I should put the pickup in the lowest part of the bilge, and NOT try to plumb it through this existing pipe. Does this make sense? And should this provide the most efficient draining of the bilge?

Jack

Edited by - Cactus Jack on 07/28/2005 07:10:46

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2005 : 22:22:37

Sounds like hooey. The lowest point of your swing keel bilge is not under your winch, it is just aft of your keel head trunk. By the way it is always better to have a dry boat than a great bilge pump. Why are you worried about a bilge pump? Do you have a wet boat?

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dhunt
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2005 : 22:32:08

I have a 78 swinger . . . The lowest part of the boat is about a foot or two aft of the main cabin bulkhead. On my boat with a pedestal table, there is an inspection plate under the table that is over the lowest part of the bilge.

I think that the 'pipe' may be an access to this area . . . lucky you! I'd advise that you get a pump that uses an input tube (many small bilge pumps just sit in the water of the bilge) and stick it down the pipe . . . pump away and see what happens.

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cat78
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2005 : 00:25:50

I have a 78 swinger and use a shop vac to suck out the water under the floor boards via the inspection plates. I had a 76 O'day and it had pipe that went throught he lower bulkhead and under the floor much as you say yours seems to. The previouse owner had cut a whole in the floor and installed and electric bilge pump that made the whole set up mute. Perhaps you could take a shop vac to it and see what happens.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2005 : 01:05:07

WHAT WATER?Why is there water in these boats? I do not understand the casual tone of people discussing coping with water in their bilge. Even if you have a window leak or something it can't be more than a sponge can handle! Boats with inboards and serious kitchens and onboard showers may need pumps but why do we?

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Cactus Jack
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2005 : 10:10:28

Yeah, I seem to have a VERY wet boat. So far, I've sealed the area around the anchor locker drain tube, which was wide open and a major source of water coming inside; I've sealed a couple of chainplate bolts; and I've sealed two windows. I'm still working to find and seal any other above the waterline leaks.

I've had several inches of water in the locker under the forward dinette seat (where the head holding tank is), and no idea where that water came from. (It was clear and odorless, so it's not a leaking holding tank.) I've had several inches of water in the rear dinette seat locker. Last weekend, I sponged four buckets of water from that locker under the winch. None of this water has had any indication of being salt water, so I believe that all leaks are rain water coming through windows and deck fittings, etc. I have NO access ports in the cabin floor to the bilge area.

I completely agree that the best solution is NO leaks, but I am beginning to think that is not an attainable goal. That's why I wanted to at least install a manual bilge pump. Besides, isn't a bilge pump a good idea on ANY boat, in case a serious leak ever develops, especially while away from your dock?

Jack

Edited by - Cactus Jack on 07/29/2005 10:14:36

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2005 : 10:53:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 WHAT WATER?Why is there water in these boats?...Boats with inboards and serious kitchens and onboard showers may need pumps but why do we?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We need bilge pumps for the same reason we carry fire extinguishes, life jackets, VHF radios, signal flares, cable cutters, etc...for when the unexpected happens.

Yes, in a perfect world no motors would quit, no squalls would arise, no electrical problems would occur, and no boats would leak, but talking with my dockmates, boats and leaks go hand in hand.

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Esteban
Navigator

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139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2005 : 11:23:13

I will admit that I too get quite a bit of water in the bilge. With the amount of rain and thunderstorms we've had here in the east coast this year, this has been a problem. Last week I scooped out a good two to three gallons of water. This has been normal every month or so - except when we don't have any rain.

Now - I know for a fact that this is leaking from either the anchor locker, windows or some place aboce the water line I have yet to find. I keep my boat on drail sail and always glance for water in the bilge before they take it out. Sure enough - with a good week of rain I will come back to find water in the bilge before the boat goes back in the water.

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cat78
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2005 : 00:31:57

I've had some occasional leaks around the motor bracket and anchor locker which I've sealed up, but my major water source seems to be the thresh hold of the to the cabin. Over the years the board has cracked and now tilts towards the cabin so that when there is a heavy rain and the direction is right the water runs down the hatch boards and flows into the cabin, hence I have water in the bilge. I usually vacume out a gallon or two twice a season.
It's worse in the winter when the boats in dry dock and covered in snow, and it melts in the spring.

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pjeffarch
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2005 : 23:32:10

I've found that after rain, there's always some water that pools, mainly due to the bad anchor locker design of my '79 SK.

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Cactus Jack
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2005 : 07:47:09

If anyone is interested, here's what I wound up doing.

I had a 4-foot length of solid, 1/2" copper pipe. I found that I could insert about two feet of that pipe into the larger pipe in my bilge. I don't know whether it was hitting something, or just the curve of the hull was preventing it from going further. Using reducers, I attached my bilge pump intake tube to this copper pipe. I bolted the pump to a small length of wood. The pump outlet tube I can lead to the cockpit to drain through the scuppers, or I can put it in the sink to drain thru-hull. To use the pump, I sit on the starboard settee with my feet on the wood on either side of the pump, and pump away. With this arrangement, I got about 2 more gallons of water out of the bilge after having sponged dry the locker under the CB winch.

The copper pipe may not run all the way to the lowest part of the bilge, but I haven't thought of any way to get a pipe / tube to that point reliably. The two feet of copper pipe certainly helped tremendously to remove more bilge water, though. And once I've sealed all the deck leaks I can find, I shouldn't have to pump the bilge very often.

Thanks for everyone's input on this; always a learning experience!

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 20:02:08

During a 14 mile race last week in 30 knots winds with gusts to 35, I was in seas that approached 5' or so. We were flying a 135 and had a single reef in the main. The boat was BONE dry at the start, but the day after the race, I opened a locker and found 6" of water in it! (Not a drop of rain) The other locker was the one by the keel trunk. It had at least 6" in it. Counting the bilge area, which I pump out with a dinghy pump through an inspection plate, I am sure I got out 5 gallons or more. I, at first, thought I might have cracked the SK trunk. No such thing. I can only suspect that some of it came up through the swing keel cable hole, and/or through the hull to deck joint. My friend, Terry Annis, claims his leaks badly there in really rough conditions. We were soaking wet on deck and in the cockpit, but the companionway "hatch" was in the closed position. It is getting in there somehow!!!!!!

Gary B.
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

BTW: I do have a Whale Gusher mounted in the cockpit that will drain the bilge area. A Y valve allows me to change sides of the keel trunk, but a sponge is necessary to get it all......I prefer the dingly pump. I put an inspection plate on the starboard side near the table post in order to have access...otherwise, the plywood "inspection plate" only allows one to get to the port side of the swinger trunk.........

Edited by - on

KenO
Deckhand

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17 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2005 : 10:50:06

Just returned from a 6 week sail in the Pacifc Northwest. Water in the boat related to how much heeling, wind waves and hard sailing. No water came in with motoring or downwind (even with the cruising spinnaker). On inspection the culprit was a leaking keel cable rubber hose. Will be fixed before the next trip. Another small leak was from a hole in the fresh water line. The lowest point in the boat seemed to be the port aft settee lazarette.

3 side notes: 1. A swing keel makes anchoring easy, just come in late and anchor closer to the shore. 2. Many times people thought we had a 27. 3. LIfting the keel with motoring gave us +/- 1/4th less gas consumption per hour.

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GeorgeB
1st Mate

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90 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2005 : 13:57:49

Well guys after a three year long refit I have a dyr boat. When you tear oneof these thigs apart, you find a lot of places where rain water gets in.

1) Around Hatch boards, it runs dorn the edges and on the port side falls on to the galley counter, where it runs under the sink edge down into the bilges.

2) Through the Genoa tracks. There are more than 68 holes through the deck along the genoa tracks. some or all of these will leak. water then infiltrates between the hull and the liner, and collects under the dinette floor. This is serious because this area is otherwise sealed an there is no access to this area, to drain it or bail it. When I cut an inspection port I found 2-3" of standing water. Wonder if there was any connection to the large blisters that I found in the hull under this area? Hmmmmmm

3) Around window frames. Water that comes through the window frames is nusince, it leads to wet floors and cushions, but water that comes in behind the frames runs inside the liner to the bottom side of the decks and eventually into the bilges.

4)Through the Mast Electrical fitting. This does not penetrate the hull liner so water that gets in here also migrates eventually to the bilge.

My solutions

But in access plates to all portions of the bilge.
Put it two bilge pumps P & S of the Keel trunk.
Remove and rebed all of the ports
Seal off the areas under the dinette seats, and Galley into four seperate storage areas
Remove and rebed the Port Genoa track. (I'm not brave enough to tackle the starbord one.)
Remove and rebed all of the deck hardware.
Voila! Dry boat for this year any way.
Oh yeah, We sewed up a sunbrella rain tent that ties on under the boom and out to the life lines. Keeps the sun and rain off the Teak and rain off the companionway.

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2005 : 16:26:21

Frank, lots of C25's sinks drain into their bilges.

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RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2005 : 17:03:32

George B, I have 2 questions. 1. Why don't you have the gumption to tackle the starboard genoa track? What is different with it over the Port side?

2. How do you get an elec bilge pump in the starboard side of the keel trunk? I can't find one to fit. Or, did installing an inspection port on that side allow one to fit?

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2005 : 22:13:37

After 9 months on the water, LaBarca took on water for the first time. While moving stuff around under the sink, we unknowingly broke a .39 cent fitting from the sink to the thru-hull. Classic stuff. Moments later...we're sitting there trying to figure out why we hear running water. We rationalized that it was just the sound of water going past the hull. Then we anchored and there was still the sound of water running past the hull. We found the problem, the sink drain hose was lying on the bottom of the bilge, just below the water line. We fixed the problem with the Handy Man's Secret Weapon - which held nicely until we got back to the Marina a couple days later and were able to locate that .39 cent part at the local hardware store. I then built in a redundant system with two screws and a piece of wire, so that if the drain hose comes off the sink again, the hose will still be above the waterline.
We pumped out as much of the bilge as we could with the bilge pump but found there was still about half a gallon of water sloshing about - so, I used my oil sucker pump and it did a very nice job of getting the last of the water out. I used a rag to mop up the dampness, and have not seen any more water in the week since. We've had unusually large amounts of rain this spring and summer - and have not taken on any water as a result. My experience with this boat is limited, but I still expect the bilge to be dry. I've hosed the deck, I've had waves over the bow, I've spilled a couple cocktails. The bilge has to be dry.

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