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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Is 5 oz dacron strong enough for a main?

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Jwendehorst
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/02/2005 : 09:48:32

I am looking for a new mainsail for my 1982 C25 and found a company that will make me a new sail for my tall rig. Does anyone know if this sounds like a quality sail? The price is half of what one would cost through Catalina Direct

Catalina 25 Tall Rig Fully Battened Mainsail
4 full battens, 5oz dacron, 1 reef. Includes leech line with cleats at
reef and clew, tell tales, slugs on luff, rope foot, sail battens and sail
bag.
$615

Thanks for any and all thoughts on this topic!!
John

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 11:30:54

You did not say who the company was. If it is some no name then I would go visit the loft. If the loft is over seas then you should ask for a customer list in your area. There are as many different prices as there are makers, it is a personal call as to what "value" is to you. I am a very shallow person who requires some brand recognition, I am very happy with the Ullman from CD. Also, that weight is a little light for me.

Edited by - on

Jwendehorst
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 12:41:29

The company is called Island Planet Sails out of Oregon. The website is islandplanetsails.com. They appear pretty reputable. We don't race the boat, but have had it out in 10 mile winds with gusts to 15. The sail we currently have is pretty blown out, a lot of stretch and bow. The price was so reasonable, I figured it was worth checking out.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 12:45:17

Sounds about right on the price. The lighter the sail, the better it will fly in light air. Heavy air=heavier cloth. If this is being made localy by a loft, it should be good for the area.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Jwendehorst
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 18:11:18

If I wind up going with this sail, does anyone know where I can find the C25 emblem to attach to the sail? The one on my old sail is pretty faded and looks 20 years old.

I just found another sail company that will sell me a 5 1/2 oz dacron sail for $580. The 6oz sail is $790. based on the post from Tom I think I'll go with the lighter 5.5oz sail cloth.

Thanks to all who respond to these messages. We Catalina folk are a great group!

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 02:30:51

The guy from Doyle that I talked to, as well as the web page for Ulman say that there is more to cloth than weight. I guess there is not a standard that all follow by and diffenent weights have different meenings for different sail makers. When asked point blank about longevity they say the less expensive sails will work just as well as theirs, except the guy I talked to said his sails will have a bigger roach with a two full battens making for a larger sail. The difference is in how long they will last before needing replaciment. Cheep should last 5 to 10 years, expensive 10 to 15.
Hope his helps, take it for what is worth. A dealer selling a product.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 16:25:41

The best sailcloth has a much tighter weave, and that's what makes good sails more expensive and last longer than cheaper ones. I agree that cheap ones should last 5-10 years, but it depends on how hard you use them. Good ones will take more of a beating than cheap ones.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 20:11:26

There's a lot more involved in determining if 5 Oz is "strong enough" for a mainsail and if the sail is worth the investment.

Some of the issues are:

How are the cringles attached and what are they made of?

What kind of headboard will they be giving you?

What type of stitching will be used on the sail and will it be single, double or triple stitched?

How will the seams be made up?

What kind of sailcloth will they be using?

How will the panels be oriented and what kind of battens will they supply?

What kind of slugs will be supplied and how will they be attached to the sail?

I honestly don't believe that anyone can deliver a sail of worthwhile value at half the price of an Ullman, and cheap can be expensive in the not so long run.

Edited to add: how good and well designed is the sail shape to begin with? You can't shape a bad sail into a good one by hooking the leech with the leechline. Or correct the draft or twist if it's bad to begin with. These can be adjusted on a well shaped sail, but a poorly designed sail will always be a poorly designed sail and will only get worse with age. Especially when you begin with light sail cloth.

Edited by - oldsalt on 08/03/2005 20:18:37

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2005 : 17:23:19

John, I had a new main made by North last year. Full battens, TWO reefs (which I recommend if you're going offshore), full roach, loose foot, tell tails, leach line and leach tell tails, 6.3 oz NORDAC premium dacron - $723. A 110 jib was $643. The weight of the dacron is usually a sailmakers option unless you really want something different. Anything over 5 oz should last 10 o 15 years depending on how you use and care for them.

Sounds like you may be in the ballpark with this loft.

I would recommend the 2d reef and also loose foot.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

ajski1000
1st Mate

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USA
52 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2005 : 22:38:55

Hey All,

I am also looking for a new Mainsail for my tall rig. I too spoke with my local Doyle sail rep. He explained to me that in his opinion the CD sails are "garbage" and that although the weight might be adequate the quality of the threads is extremely poor. He quoted me 1100 for a new mainsail including, half battens, leach line, and a single reef point. What do you guys think about this, are the sails at CD good sails or not? I’m looking for something inexpensive but yet good enough to sail around in 10-15, if not more IT gets pretty windy in Narraganset Bay. Thanks

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2005 : 09:53:52

Are CD sails Garbage? There is a lot to that question.
First is how would he know who The Foredeck dba Catalina Direct is? Most sailmakers would confuse CD (Catalina Direct) with CD (Cruising Direct). They are two very different companies.
Second, Catalina Direct offers three levels of sails themselves, OEM, Off the shelf, and Custom. All of these products are Ullman sails from the Ullman Ventura loft. The OEMs come through the Catalina Yachts parts department and say Catalina Sails on them, they are very expensive, no-one buys them. The off the shelf sails are made over seas for Ullman Ventura and they are very specific to explain that the sails are made with materials provided by Ullman Ventura and that the cutter is driven from the computer at the Ventura loft. (I am sure these are identical to the OEM Catalina Yachts sails). The custom sails are just that, they are sold through CD but you get a custom built sail from Gary Swensen of Ullman Ventura; this is obviously the best quality product. Most of us buy the off the shelf Ullman because it is a fine product and ships that day. The current National Champion won with custom Ullman Ventura sails and beat a boat with new Quantum sails. Quantum are VERY good sails. (OK I lied a little, the sails were ordered directly from Ullman Ventura and they cut CD out.)
So your Doyle guy is full of crap but it is probably the result of ignorance and a lack of integrity; show me a comission salesman that doesn't suffer from those two traits. All of that said, Doyle makes excellent quality sails and you would have to buy the custom sails from CD to approach their quality. The Doyle stack pack is an awesome product and will probably be my next main. The truth is though that unless you have a personal reason to buy something else the off the shelf Ullman sail from Catalina Direct is an excellent choice.

Also; 10-15 is well within the normal range of any general purpose main. You do not need to worry about a main being strong enough for your area unless it is a special purpose light air main and even then 10-15 should be ok, just stay away from 25-30.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 08/05/2005 10:04:56

ajski1000
1st Mate

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USA
52 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2005 : 23:12:14

Thanks Frank

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2005 : 19:21:21

You might check with Banks Sails in Portland. Dale there builds a very good main with great cloth, and better reinforcements than most. I got a main from him (a little over $600 offseason price) about 3 years ago and still race with it and do okay.....It has one reef and only the first batten is full. It has seen 35 knots on occasion and is still good. I cruise with a double reefed main he built for me in 1991. I was still winning races with it when I replaced it in 2002.

Compared to the Oriental sails I have seen, these are GOLDEN...no camparison. Stay local if you can....the service is usually better if/when you need it if you can take it back to the loft that built it....

Gary B.
s/v Encore! #685
Fleet 94 Captain

PS And "NO", I would NOT get a 5 oz. main except maybe for special light air circumstances...not as a general purpose main.

Edited by - Gary B. on 08/10/2005 19:22:59

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