Association Forum - New sails question (moved)

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

New sails question (moved)

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Member Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/25/2005 : 06:00:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Benge
 I am new to the c-25 and I am in need of new sails. I am going to race and I want to know about the mylar. Is it worth it. What size head sail and weight would you suggest. I can not afford more than one head sail to begin with? I live in Wyoming, High winds! Tell me the brand of sail you suggest. Where do those black mylar sails come from? Thanks.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh those black and gold sails are out there, just ask any sailmaker about them and they will explain their opinion and their availability. The overall champion from the nationals had told me that Gary Swenson of Ventura Ulman Sails was building him a complete new set of sails for the regatta. he got a dacron main, dacron blade (a full hoist deck sweeping 110), and the scary mylar 155. He said that he intended to sell the 155 after the regatta; it is what he flew both days. The first day it blew 15-18 and the leaders all flew 155s. The second place boat was very fast as well and used all mylar sails from Quantum.

If you will have crew and are serious, you will fly the big genny in all but the worst conditions. Our boats are underpowered for the tactical maneuvers of the race course and need the HP of the big sail to be competitive. If you will be short handed then a 135 and a good reefing system on your main can make you fairly competitive, you just shake out the reef after the weather mark. If you want to sail in high wind when others are watching from shore then an 80% and a reefed main will let you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight. (I am often the only boat on my lake when it is really ripping.)

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 07/25/2005 06:04:40

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2005 : 09:18:43

If you are racing seriously and very frequently, i.e. 4 or more times a week. You'll be lucky if you get more than 18 mos. to 24 mos. out of the laminate sails depending what type of fiber is woven in-between the mylar. The best you’ll get is 3 years before they are stretched and beaten up beyond what they used to be. You’ll still be able to use the 2 year old mylar sails, but the guy with the 2 year old dacron cloth is going to get better sail shape and point.

You’ll most likely get a few dissenters of my opinion here, but I’ve seen it with the sails on the Evelyn 32 over the past 6 -7 years. If you put the new sail next to the old, you’ll easily see the difference.

While every last little bit of weight counts, but I don’t see our sweat-hogs gaining that much of a competitive advantage playing in the mylar sandbox. A hull as smooth as a baby’s bottom and a good tactician with a reasonably priced sail are going to win you more races than those sails will. Elvestrom-Sobstad has a “Club-Racer” sail that is specifically made for the guy who does his twice a week races and goes home that is extremely competitive. All or most of the other lofts have something similar. They will hold up much longer and keep a decent sail shape for a longer period of time.

If it is something you’ve have your mind set on, I’d suggest going to the main page of our website and jumping over to the links page. The big players in the sail market are all there… North, UK-Halsey, Elvestrom-Sobstad, Quantum, and Doyle. Do the research on the websites – get free quotes and most importantly, call the lofts and talk to the guys. Those conversations will be your best guage as to what you want.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2005 : 09:41:57

How does one go about getting a sail maker's name on that list Duane? I'd like to suggest that Hallett Canvas and Sails be added to that list. There are quite a few Catalinas on the lake where I sail that fly their cloth and they are well known in the Northeast. I got my new genny from them and am extremely pleased.

http://www.hallettcanvasandsails.com/

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2005 : 10:17:32

Concurr with the comments... the fancy laminate stuff won't stay new very long. The cost to stay 'at the performance peak' of the sails mean basically spending the value of the boat, every 2 years... really serious competitors will burn through a set of sails every season ($$$).

With high quality Dacron, your cost will be about half as much and you'll get 95% of the performance.

IMHO: If you really get into racing, you'll probably find that racing PHRF/Handicap is kinda like kissing your aunt at the last wedding. Something missing... You'll never be sure if it was the rating or your sailing skill that made the difference. I think you'll long for 1-design action and be looking for a J-24, Melges or other 'racing' boat.

To start with, I'd shop for a high-quality set of Dacron from a knowledgable loft (experience with the C25) and see how badly you get bitten by the racing bug. Proceed as the way opens.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2005 : 11:03:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by existentialsailor
 How does one go about getting a sail maker's name on that list Duane? I'd like to suggest that Hallett Canvas and Sails be added to that list. There are quite a few Catalinas on the lake where I sail that fly their cloth and they are well known in the Northeast. I got my new genny from them and am extremely pleased.

http://www.hallettcanvasandsails.com/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'll email Spike and have her add that sail loft to the list

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2005 : 11:16:14

For the cost of a mylar genoa, you can buy a whole set of sails in dacron. That's what I'd do. If you're just starting out racing, it will take a while to learn enough to make the investment in mylar worth it. In the mean time, enjoy your dacron.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2005 : 11:22:57

One other item

A simple tear with a Dacron (not to be confused with a dacron filament mylar) is a $15-$30 quick stich job for a fix. Depending on the location a simple tear on a mylar sail might mean a whole new sail or an expensive repair.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5935 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2005 : 10:40:22

Laminated sails are "must-haves" on bigger boats, but on boats our size, dacron sails are usually competitive with laminated. Laminated sails have two primary advantages over dacron. They're lighter in weight than dacron, and they don't stretch.

As far as the stretchiness is concerned, you can make dacron sails just as fast by paying close attention to constantly re-trimming the sails each time the wind puffs and lulls. (Dacron stretches in the puffs and shrinks in the lulls, and you re-trim them to maintain the ideal shape at all times.)

The weight of dacron sailcloth works to your disadvantage in strong winds as well as in light air, but it's a very minor factor in strong winds. In very light air, the light weight of laminated sails is a big advantage, because it takes less wind to hold them out in the shape that drives the boat. Heavier dacron sailcloth tends to hang limp and lose all drive. But in most races, the wind is strong enough that the advantage of laminated sails isn't that significant.

Unless you're deadly serious about racing, I agree with the others that laminated sails aren't worth the expense.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.