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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

2nd reefing Point

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/21/2002 : 22:46:48

Sunday we were out in 2+ winds and I Really wished I had reefed to the 2nd reefing point. My Jiffy reef line runs back to the cockpit and it is rigged to quickley and easily reef to the 1st reefing point. Know I need to learn how to rig and use the 2nd reefing point just in case. Does any 250 owners have a quick solution or does this need to be done at the dock? Any clues on hoe you run your reefing lines would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve Steakley
Moon Chaser #385

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2002 : 22:59:22

Guess I need to proof before posting, that is 20+mph and how, not hoe,
Steve

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2002 : 00:04:23

Steve

We don't really use the second reef point that often. When it gets that windy I don't want to scare the kids so we head to the marina. But I have reefed to the second reef in the past I do it the old fashion way. Lower the main so the second reef points are at the boom go up on deck and tie it down through the reef points with 5 lines. As mentioned above I don't think for my usage it is worth installing the second one line reefing system to the cockpit.
If you need to in the future you can edit replies you post by clicking on the paper & pencil icon next to the date and time of your posting.

Bryan Beamer
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

Edited by - Bryan Beamer on 04/22/2002 00:06:41

Edited by - Bryan Beamer on 04/22/2002 00:09:47

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acierno
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2002 : 08:20:25

steve, i have used the first and second reef points and found that, and i have tested this back and forth on the same day, using the second reef and 1/2 to 3/4 of the 135% genoa maintains beautiful balance and the speed is the same or better (in sufficient wind) as the first reef---and it doesn't scare the heck out of the guests. moreover, the fastest I have had this boat going was with the second reef and 1/2 jib in strong wind (heel about 11 degrees max). i found that the first reef did not really change the sail profile dramatically enough to cut the excessive heel in the gusts, and i was required to furl the jib, messing up the balance. i now run the lines exclusively through the second reef. you may need a slightly longer sheet, but all you do is 1) on the aft line, untie from the boom, pull the rope from the first reef hole and feed through the second, retie directly below to boom (can use lower eye hole that is 1/2 inch above boom for anchor) 2) determine how your forward line is attached (will probably have to back line all the way out from cleat near cockpit and blocks on mast), unfeed from first hole and reverse through second. its that simple, takes about 3 minutes. remember, though, you may need more line. i have now had two trips in very strong winds with first timers (one of whom had never been on any boat at all and is deathly afraid of water) and this sail combination absolutely controlled heel and maintained speed--the boat is faster flat than heeled, i found out from this list.

ron
'mia alessandra'
250wk, hull 463

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2002 : 10:29:03

Bryan, not sure if your saying that you tie the second reef down with the gaskets only. If so, this leaves your sail vulnerable to damage. Gaskets on these sails are really to tidy up the reefed section and get it secured... the sail itself is secured as always, by the clew and tack cringles.

Unless there's been a change, Catalina doesn't provide setup for the 2nd reef. There are several ways to accomplish this, single line jiffy sometimes led to the cockpit or a two line system. Pick the method you think will fit your needs.

I will desribe the two line system I use. It of course requires setting from on the coach roof.

The forward line setting the tack is straight forward. A line is made to the bale of the mainsail's tack on the port side. It runs up thru the 2nd reef tack and back down to a horn cleat on the mast. It gets set first and is easily done by dropping the main to a preset mark on the halyard. Be cautious however and watch that the floating sail slug (there's a proper name for it, but I forget) rigging is working properly allowing the clew to be pulled down.

The aft line consist of a cheek block on the starboard side of boom mounted so that it pulls the 2nd reef clew aft at a 45 deg angle when the clew is close to the boom. Forward on the starboard side of the boom is a jam type horn cleat. A line is made to the becket of the cheek block, run under the boom, up thru the 2nd reef clew cringle, down thru the cheek block and forward thru a couple of eye straps to the horn cleat. I put the jam of this cleat aft. This allows me to wrap the line forward around the horn...then thru the jam and then grap the line and pull out from the boom which outhauls the sail firming it up. Then, reset the horn cleat and cleat it as any horn cleat. Don't use a cam cleat here. An accidental release of a reef point with the gaskets set could rip out the mainsail.

Mixing and matching. If lines are let to cockpit... run them all and do single line jiffy reefs to the cockpit. While this will take effort to keep friction in the jiffy reefs low, it could be frustrating otherwise. The reason... forgeting to set your topping lift and drop the main prior to climbing onto the coach roof.

For those who trailer or don't have lines led aft, then my thoughts are to provide all the lines forward near the mast on the starboard side. Run the topping lift internally thru the mast and exit just as the outhaul does but do so on the starboard side. The 1st reef can be jiffy reefed just as the book shows with a single line. The one exception noted by AA2MX is to lower the port cheek block on the mast as the factory placement causes a lot of chaff on the line.

Rig the 2nd reef two line system as described above. This will put all of your lines at a single station and one that can be managed from a sitting posistion with one leg wrapped around the vang. I've been there many times. If single handed, it does require that the mainsheet tension is set loose enough to allow setting the topping lift prior to climbing onto coach roof but not loose enough to allow the boom to swing far. It also helps a lot to loose foot the mainsail as this provides a handhold on the top of the boom and to reef if possible on a starboard tack or hove to.

Last thought, many put the topping lift aft on the port side of the boom. While this has the advantage of operating the topping lift from the cockpit and is a good choice if lines are led aft and the topping lift is not included on the deck.... if the halyard and reefing lines are at or near the mast... the topping lift needs to be too. If the topping lift is all ready aft on the boom... then add it forward too if spare blocks are available within the boom.... making it a double ended control line. This way the best of both worlds is available, and forgetting to either set or release the topping lift presents no returns.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2002 : 16:56:50

Arlyn, do you have a picture of this you could post?

The problem I have with my second reef is I find I have to remove a sail slug or tow and that requires going on deck when it is blowing.I had a sailmaker install a second jiffy reefing line on my boat but I have found it isn't too effective because of the sail slug problem. Has anyone found a way to avoid removing the sail slug?

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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1038 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2002 : 02:20:20

Arlyn.

Let me explain a little further. The tack is tied to the boom and the mast in a manor so when I tighten the clew it will not slide towards the back of the boom.I use a cleat on the mast for this. The 2nd reefing clew when its down to the boom is a little farther forward than the first reefing clew. The reef line that is tied around the boom goes up to the first reef clew then into the back of the boom.I loosen the one line reef system enough to back tie a loop in it. I then tighen the reef line so if I need to shake the second reef the first is still set. This loop makes the anchor point. Using a 1/4" line I tie a bowline to the clew go thru the anchor point around the clew back though the anchor point and thru the clew again that is a basic 4 to 1 with out blocks then it is tied to itself with 4 1/2 hitches making a very secure tie down. It is at an angle that keeps the sail from lifting up or riding towards the mast keeping the pressure off the gaskets. This part can be done from the cockpit. I do have to go to the mast to undo the slug stopper and tie the tack. The gaskets are reachable from the cockpit. The above mentioned method is a little difficult and takes a little time to do(5 to 6 min). If this turns into more of a common practice I will install the second reef system. But until then I feel okay with this system.

Bryan Beamer
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2002 : 11:08:44

Steve, when I had my 2nd reef installed, they also set up the slugs on a floating line so that none have to be taken out when reefing. There is a name for this that I don't recall but when I can...will get a picture of it and desribe.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2002 : 15:21:11

Arlyn, the floating slug is a good idea. I have only one but will get the sailmaker to add the others. I would like to see how your second reef is setup when you get a chance to post a picture.
Thanks for you help.

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

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zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2002 : 19:22:55

What size line is appropriate to use for the tie downs through the gaskets?

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2002 : 23:14:35

You have all given me a lot to consider. I like simple solutions so I am printing out your responses and taking them to my boat to study. You have given me a couple of really good ideas and I hope to create a solution that will allow me to run a line to the cockpit and reef with the same effort as the current jiffy reef system for the 1st reef point.
Thanks,
Steve Steakley
Moon Chaser #385

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2002 : 16:58:25

All right, the winds were 15-20 gusting to 25+ so I thought a great time to practice using the second reefing point, I have not had time to do any of the things suggested so I simply attached a line to the second reefing points and secured the leech to the boom and used a block and the mast cleat to secure the luff of the main, we had about a 90% jib and we sailed at 3-4 knots with 10-15 degrees of heal angle, perfect for my wife who was interested in an easy going mothers day sail, school is almost out so I will soon assemble my jiffy reef for the second point
Steve Steakley
"Moon Chaser"

Edited by - ssteakley on 05/13/2002 16:58:57

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