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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

CDI Furler

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mtward
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/17/2007 : 20:30:54

I am thinking about purchasing the CDI Flexiable Furler, is it easy to install as they say without taking down the mast. Opinions? Comments?

Do you advise purchasing the kit from CD, vs. the Furler by itself.

thanks

Michael Ward
mtward1@hotmail.com
Catalina 25 #3621 TR FK
1983

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2007 : 21:09:31

Hi Michael,
Do you mean Catalina Direct or Cruising Direct? I have Installed four of them without taking the mast down as well as maintenance on a couple also with out dropping the mast.
You need an FF4 with the ball bearing upgrade. The FF4 comes with an internal halyard that has a fair amount of stretch to it, the FF6 has a wire halyard which has very little stretch. If you are very picky you may want the FF6. There is quite a bit of technique to installing the unit, it is all simple but you need to do all of it.
How familiar are you with the CDI?
As for the kit, You do not need or want the fairleads, you probably have a cleat on your boom that you are not using and can move. The only good thing in the kit is a new forestay which is always a good idea on our old boats.
The best price seems here.
http://www.cruisingdirect.com/CDIRollerFurlers.htm

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 09/17/2007 21:15:28

Scumbucket
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2007 : 22:10:38

Frank, is this an easy install to do?

Edited by - on

mtward
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2007 : 22:19:06

Thanks Frank, yes I was talking about Catalina Direct. You mention the internal headstay and how it stretches, I was under the impression that the furler slides over the exiting headstay. Am I wrong on that part.

thanks

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2007 : 08:01:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mtward
 You mention the internal headstay and how it stretches, I was under the impression that the furler slides over the exiting headstay...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Michael,

Frank stated that the internal "halyard" stretches not the forestay. The furler indeed slides over the existing forestay, but it is a separate entity from the internal halyard.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2007 : 11:13:27

Owning and maintaining a CDI furler:
(I am not a qualified rigger and speak as a friendly sailor, all decisions are in the hands of the owner of the boat.)

First I would like to say that I only have one because it was essentially a gift from a friend. I was way too much of a hardware snob to have bought one, I consider the Harken Mark III with upper and lower swivels as the gold standard. That said I now believe the CDI to be the perfect furler/reefer for our boats. The documentation for the product is very good and should be read and followed. The sailmaker notes are critical.

Preparation Considerations:
Ball bearing or nylon bushing. This is a no brainer, get the ball bearing upgrade.
FF4 vs FF6. The difference in the two is the halyard, the 6 has a wire halyard with virtually no stretch, the 4 has, (in the past) had a ¼” rope halyard with more stretch than most would want. The designer has changed the halyard on the 4 several times and I believe is trying to improve it. Mine is an older one with a traveler car molded into the halyard, the car provides something to tie a messenger to and keeps the halyard in the halyard track. Newer models have a ferrule pressed on the halyard to ride the inside of the track which keeps the halyard in the track. Instead of a molded car they have the tail of the halyard cored and it hangs out the track where you can simply tie a messenger to it. (More on the messenger later.)
Foil length. Part of the simplicity of the CDI is the foil head design and function. It contains a simple sheave which the halyard runs on and it acts as the upper swivel bushing on the forestay. I believe that a forestay should have as long as swage fitting on the top as possible. It only makes sense that the SS shaft of the upper swage fitting is a better surface for the foil head to rotate on than the strands of twisted wire. If a person gets a new forestay they should ask for a long shank on the upper swage fitting. Regardless of the fitting, the foil needs to be cut very precisely so that the foil head rides the forestay shank to avoid wear on the twisted strands. The most common error in the installation of the CDI is cutting the foil too short, (look around the docks, you will see it everywhere). It is much better to cut it too long and have to trim it again.

Proper fit…

Installation Considerations:
As was discussed recently, anchoring should be considered when selecting whether to run the furling line to port or starboard. Many boats have anchor rollers on the bow, if the furling line and anchor roller are on the same side the anchor must be slipped under the furling line to be deployed; not good. I believe the furling line should run on the same side as the hinges to the anchor well if possible.
I have installed these on the trailer and in the water, both have their advantages. On the trailer allows the foil to rise up the forestay more easily because it can hang down below the boat and therefore be straighter as it rises up the forestay. Being in the water allows easier access to the bowstem fitting and keeps people off of ladders.
As a CDI owner you need a good messenger, you actually raise your sail with the messenger. The internal halyard is just a bit longer than the length of the foil allowing it to be contained in the foil when the sail is raised, if it were twice the length of the foil as mast halyards are you would have a large coil of line at the bottom of the furler after the sail was raised. That coil would have to swivel with the furler… bad idea. So it is the messenger tied to the halyard that provides the length needed to raise the sail, the messenger is then removed and the tail of the halyard is made off to the drum. I use 1/8” high-tech halyard. It stows in a small space but is strong enough to raise the sail with out any concern for it breaking; and cost enough I treat it with respect and always know where it is.
Since the ferrule or traveler car cannot pass over the sheave the halyard must be installed by working the raw end of the halyard the length of the foil, a safety pin or hemostats or something else that has a very good grip in a very narrow slot is needed to move the halyard along the foil. Once it passes over the sheave at the top of the foil it remains loose and does not continue down the slot. It is amazing how many people try to raise their sail with the wrong end of the halyard, the cored end with the ferrule is the end you haul on, it runs the foil slot without the feeder cutout. The simple cut end must tie to the sail and the sail’s luff tape runs up the slot on the feeder side. With the luff tape in a slot on one side and the halyard in the slot on the other side there are no loose lines when the sail is hoisted; everything is clean and internal to the slots.
You must orient the drum opening to the side of the boat with the furling line. This is done by aligning a shackle on the bottom of the drum. Spend some time making certain you have this right; it is a pain to redo once the system is in place.
You need good medium sized vice-grips. You will need to access to your lower forestay turnbuckle and the vice-grips are crucial to gaining that access. (You will remove the turnbuckle to install the unit and need to refit and tighten it again once the installation is complete.) The drum and foil are designed so that you can lift the drum up the foil after removing a clevis pin which the foil normally rests on; you use the vice-grips to hold the weight of the entire furling system by clamping them on the shank of the lower forestay swage fitting. Store the vice-grips with your messenger.

Mast Up Installation Technique:
Here is the issue; you need to push a noodle up a loose forestay. The solution is that you pull the noodle instead of pushing it. You will use the standard headsail halyard on your mast to haul the foil up the forestay. You need to feed it as straight up the face of the mast as possible, a noodle pulls straight up much better than up an angle. Some amount of jostling is needed to help the forestay slide down the inside of the foil. To prepare the foil for the lift I use my messenger tied to the internal foil halyard and pull the messenger to the top of the foil, this means the length of the internal halyard is now exposed on the sail side of the foil. (I have done this alone and with help, here is where help is nice), clip the stock halyard from your mast around the exposed internal halyard at the top of the foil where the internal halyard exits the foilhead. Use a second messenger on the shackle of the mast halyard so that you can pull it back down once the foil is up, it does not need to be anything special, pulling the lifting halyard back down has no real load. The problem that must be managed it keeping the mast halyard shackle at the top of the foil, this is another reason you need to lift as vertically as possible. While you are hauling the foil up the forestay you need to make sure that neither the messenger tied to the internal halyard nor the internal halyard run so you must control those two loose ends as the foil is raised. Once it is up you will slide the drum assembly up the section of forestay that is sticking out the bottom and use the vice-grips clamped to the swage fitting at the bottom of your forestay to lock everything in place while you haul the mast halyard down to where you can unclip it from around the foil halyard. Put the turnbuckle back on loosely, reconnect the forestay to the stem fitting and adjust your forestay tension. Two friends will make this a much nicer event.
Running The Furling Line:
Our stanchions have bases that lend themselves to acting as fairleads, try it before you buy stuff. I use a horn cleat in the cockpit so that I have a positive cleat to the line, I do not worry about it coming loose under load. Everyone invents their own system for handling the furling line, I like having a ratcheting turning block at the sternrail so that I can pull the line under heavy loads and not loose my grip.
my setup... (now moved to port)

Postscript: The only reason I have done this several times is the boats I worked on all had good forestays, good halyards, good masthead sheaves, functioning mast lights, a Windex in place… in other words there was no reason to drop the mast. That said, most people with a new to them Catalina 25 NEED to drop their mast and do maintenance and upgrades to it. If you have an original forestay get a new one, you will not be able to inspect your forestay once it is inside a furler. If you have original masthead sheaves they are bad and need to be replaced. If you have wire to rope halyards they should be replaced with all rope halyards. A safe rig is paramount.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 09/18/2007 11:15:06

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2007 : 14:17:12

If you are not lowering the mast, here is another way to run the foil up the forestay that I used successfully. The end of the forestay that screws into the lower turnbuckle has a small hole drilled through it to tie off the turnbuckle with wire. I laid the foil out on the deck and pushed an electricians snake through the channel that accepts the forestay which I then wired to the hole in the end of the forestay. I then had an accomplice pull the forestay/snake out taut to about a 45 degree angle and I pushed the foil up over the forestay. Once it was pushed up far enough to expose the wire, I clamped on the vice grips, to prevent the foil from sliding back down, and removed the wire and snake. Then I proceeded as Frank explains.
By the way, if your forestay turnbuckle is the older "closed" style turnbuckle that Catalina use to use, you will need to replace it with an open faced turnbuckle so you can wire it off. Otherwise the rotation of the furler drum may unscrew your turnbuckle resulting in a disconnected forestay and possibly a dismasting. Make sure you read the manual several times before you attempt this. You can get a copy of the manual here.
http://www.sailcdi.com/sailpdf/FF4& 6%20manual%207_06.pdf

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 11:01:07

I like your method, I will try it next time.

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Cate
Navigator

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199 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2007 : 15:05:41

Since we are on the topic of furlers, I just had my CDI extrusion replaced so it would go to the top of the mast. The previous extrusion was about 2 ft short of the top. When the guys were installing this new extrusion they found that the forestay was going bad and the toggle was incorrect. PO messing around I guess. Anyway, the rigging guys fixed all and raised my sail up the furler about 1 ft. from the top. Does that seem right? (140% genoa)

Edited by - on

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