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Halyard Project

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SteveRoberts
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/05/2008 : 23:42:57

We've purchased all the bits to convert to all-rope halyard; toward the end of the month we'll yank the boat out of the water, paint the bottom, drop the stick and do the halyards and spreader bases and (I hope) get the name and image painted on.

In the meantime, I needed to put shackles on the halyards. It's been nearly 20 years since I've spliced braided rope so I was a little nervous. Now that the job is done, I'm pretty happy and wanted to share...not to mention trying out embedding images.

Turns out I can't NOT put thimbles in my eye splices.

-SR

Loon
C-25 FK SR
Hull #828

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 06:21:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How are you going to put the metal bits through the sheaves<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The bitter end ?

Paul

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 07:35:49

Be aware your sheaves may also need to be replaced. Mine were in very poor shape so I ordered a new set through Catalina Direct.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 07:37:31

I could not do that!
I have never seen thimbles in halyard eye splices. I would take them out.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 08:26:48

Beautiful work, but I tend to agree with Frank... Your halyards should be pretty tight--think about the angle the shackle will have to the mainsail--the perpendicular angle of the thimble (and the diameter it adds to the loop) could bind against the mast and possibly cause the halyard to pull outward on the uppermost slug. I think that eye should as slender and soft as possible.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/06/2008 08:27:53

SteveRoberts
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 12:02:55

I have a box with sheaves, spreader bases and window re-sealing kit, all from CD. It's all waiting for the big yard week (well, except for the windows, I could do that anytime).

Dave & Frank, I'll certainly watch for binding but I expect (hope?) that the combination of the overhang of the sheaves plus the little bit of distance from the sheave to the headboard would give me enough wiggle room to avoid a problem.

That said, I'll certainly go down to the boat and review. You raise pretty good points. I'm pretty sure I'll leave the thimble in the jib halyard. I went and looked at other boats before I made up the splices...that loop on the shackle makes for a pretty small stress point on the eye.

I'll report back when/if I change anything.

The Admiral is accusing me of "playing boat." Guess I'm hooked again.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 12:59:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SteveRoberts
 ...that loop on the shackle makes for a pretty small stress point on the eye...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Double-braid rope is fine on that loop. Wire would be another story... I simply used a bowline so I could easily reverse the halyards--not nearly as seamanlike as your job.

Fair winds!

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 13:11:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The Admiral is accusing me of "playing boat." Guess I'm hooked again. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Funny.
Last weekend I had the powerwasher going. I cleaned the house, truck and car in about an hour and a half. Took me all day sunday to do the boat.

RE your halyards, I'm going to replace mine next season, please keep us up to date on how these work for you. I'd be inclined to use a bowline or cow hitch.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 16:31:51

I did eye splices with leather chafe wrap because it looks good. I have read warnings of bowlines loosening from loading/unloading, but I have never seen it happen in 40 years around sailboats. I have used bowlines in the past and will again, but I needed to to something nautical to do this past winter; splicing is always good therapy, but a bowline, especially whipped, is pretty foolproof.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 19:05:12

Just installed an new eye splice in my existing braided jib halyard today (the cover was severly chaffed about 8 inches fron the eye)and reused the small thimble from the original eye. Although my research says that metal thimbles are only required on Kevlar core lines (I don't know why) I figgured it couldn't hurt to have the thimble on the jib halyard I've never had any trouble with the original. The main halyard is a different story. I agree thet it definatly should not have a thimble in the eye splice and that the splice should be as small as possible because of it's verticle angle of entry into the sheave and it's proximity to the mast.

Edited by - Renzo on 05/06/2008 19:07:00

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:55:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Renzo
 ...Although my research says that metal thimbles are only required on Kevlar core lines (I don't know why)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...because the Kevlar core loses much of its strength if bent to sharply. (Most halyards have many multiples of the strength they need.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/06/2008 22:56:33

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 06:02:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Renzo
 ...Although my research says that metal thimbles are only required on Kevlar core lines (I don't know why)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...because the Kevlar core loses much of its strength if bent to sharply. (Most halyards have many multiples of the strength they need.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks for clearing that up for me Dave. Who would have thunk that Kevlar, which is stronger than a speeding bullet, could be weakend by getting bent.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 09:30:22

I got high-tech halyards from CD for its low-stretch (for holding my furler tight all season), and read that if I put a knot in it, that would reduce its strength by as much as half. I think the breaking strength was something like 10,000 lbs., so I tied knots in it. So supposedly I could still lift the whole boat out of the water with one halyard... (The "working load" rating, of course, was lower.)

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 11:04:15

Tell me again why I should change to all rope halyard. I have the cable/rope with a bowline which has been from day one, 79. I did double the crimp fittings at each end of both halyards and wrapped them with non chaffing tape. The main halyard has a block with a Becket between the cable and line to help me raise the sail for the last 5 feet. When racing the halyards are really cranked for sail shape so they are tested. No problem yet but I do inspect each season before raising the mast.

I do put the halyard together and tie the line with out slack to the bow pulpit. I started this practice when a live-a-board gave me the hint that if a halyard was noisy it would be found the next morning curled neatly in the cockpit.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 11:42:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sweetcraft

Tell me again why I should change to all rope halyard.

...a live-a-board gave me the hint that if a halyard was noisy it would be found the next morning curled neatly in the cockpit.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, they're a little less noisy!

I changed when I led my main halyard back to the cockpit--for more length. I appreciated not wrapping wire around the jib sheet winch, and not having that halyard (which I never loosened) banging on the mast. Also, you're not supposed to keep a load on the wire-to-rope splice (it should be below the winch), and cleating wire is certainly not a good thing, therefore reefing with wire-to-rope can be an issue. There may be some other reasons...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/07/2008 11:47:56

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:04:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I do put the halyard together and tie the line with out slack to the bow pulpit. I started this practice when a live-a-board gave me the hint that if a halyard was noisy it would be found the next morning curled neatly in the cockpit.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We have a mooring in a Navy Marina in which there are about 100 sailboats. You will not hear a single clanking halyard there. There are two ways to get into trouble there, that is not heard of else-where, one is wearing a hat in the members lounge and the other is to have a halyard or other line clanking against a mast.
I still have what I believe are the original wire portion of the wire to rope halyards. I bungee cord the wire halyards to the stays then put tension on them.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 17:47:30

It looks like time to run lines to the cockpit with bungee lines to keep things quiet. Have had a great run with the original equipment but it makes sense to avoid that walk to the bow.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2008 : 17:56:09

There are many minor reasons to use all rope halyards, but no compelling reasons. Weight aloft is not much of an issue for us, noise can be addressed many ways, and both are certainly strong, I changed so I could easily do it myself and not have halyards made.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2008 : 22:21:51

I have never had wire halyards but I seem to remember discussions in this forum where if you disconnected the halyard from the sail it was very easy for the weight of the wire to pull the halyard shackle up to the top of the mast, requiring a means to retrieve it. Rope halyards do not seem to have that problem.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2008 : 22:29:52

But Joe, when the sail is down, most of the wire is on the side of the mast with the sail. It must be the weight of the rope that's pulling it. In any case, it has happened...

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:02:20

I was sailing a catamaran recently, with rope halyards - the deck monkey was taking the jib down and let go of the halyard in a high wind, it flew forward and wrapped around the forestay about 20' up.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 13:37:41

On the hauling side, the rope goes to the deck but not on the sail side. Longer and heavier wins

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