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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Wired backwards???

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/06/2008 : 11:03:51

OK,I was driving home from the boat last night. Ticked off because the D*** motor won't start and I started to think. (I know -- dangerous.) What if I wired the motor to the battery backwards? I truly don't think I did but, what if? By the time this thought crossed my mind, I was already 30++ miles away from the boat and didn't want to go back.

Here's the chronology of events:

1) April 5 -- I hooked up the motor and it ran like a champ. It started in seconds and ran well.

2) April 6 -- Took the motor out to the boat and hooked it up and waited for launch.

3) April 15 -- Launched the boat and the electric start didn't work in the well. Went below and checked the wires and all looked OK. Fiddled around with the gear shift lever a little and then started the motor. I don't remember if I started it then with the pull start or the battery. I was just relieved it started. I motored to my slip and spent the day rigging the boat. Before I left, I tried to start the motor and got nothing from the electric starter nor the pull start. Went home disgusted.

4) April 20 -- Went out to the boat, fiddled around with the safety interlock (transmission) for the pull start and was able to start the motor. I let it warm up for a while then took the boat out. On the way out, the motor started to sputter and cough so I turned around and went back to the slip. I stalled at idle speed but was able to safely dock the boat from momentum. I re-started the motor and let it run for a while at higher RPM and it seemed fine. I was desperate to sail so I tried again. Got out. Sailed for an hour or so. Restarted the motor. Wouldn't idle but ran at higher RPMs. I safely docked the boat. Motor died again on the way in at idle speed. No worries, the "Dock-O-Matic" worked.

Fast forward to:

4) May 5 -- Went out to the boat, got nothing from the [)@^^^^ motor and drove home and had the above thought.

So here's my question ; If I did connect the motor to the battery backwards, would pull-starting and running it for a while cause serious (or permanent) damage to the motor? Could that be why it wouldn't even pull-start yesterday?

Sorry for the long rant but, I'm really frustrated. Did I mention that the yard told me they "should" be able to take a look at it this week? I told them about it 3 weeks ago. And that's just to see if they can fix it.

AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, now I feel better.

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 11:32:08

it should not affect the pull start. It sounds like a fouled idle jet. Clean with B12ChemTool or a similar carb cleaner.

If it is wired backwards you will have at best a blown fuse in the motor and at worst blown diodes in the charging circuit.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 13:17:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 It sounds like a fouled idle jet...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Very common, especially in the more finely-jetted 4-strokes, and especially after winter storage. And you have the symptoms. Wired backward, your starter motor will at most spin freely without turning over the engine. I suspect your alternator would blow a fuse (like my charger did once).

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 13:23:03

reverse polarity on that connection usually smells bad.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 14:07:32

John,

My Honda 9.9 ran fine for about 30 minutes after winter storage, but then it sputtered and stalled at idle. I had winterized it with a bit of oil in each cylinder, but I had not cleaned or even emptied the carb.

Took it to the shop and the mechanic cleaned the carb. Runs like new. I gotta jump in and start using my Honda shop manual. Can't be that hard!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 14:22:59

Thanks, guys. I feel a bit better. I was afraid I fried my motor.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 16:11:50

John,
It does sound like the idle jet and carb cleaner is fine I suppose, but very nasty stuff and doesn't always do the job. IMHO nothing replaces blowing compressed air through every orifice in your carburetor. Worked for me the other year when nothing else would. There's also a filter of sorts where the gas first enters the motor you might want to check, usually behind one screw so easily accessible.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 21:33:54

Fuel old fuel. I had the engine new and the dealer started it on a test tank and explained all the new features and it was great. It took me several weeks to get the unit installed and it would not run. Pulled plugs, checked spark and then opened the drain valve on the carburator for the new fuel to run through and never had another problem. I feel your frustration.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5240 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 21:40:39

I had the same problem at the end of last season, no idle but the engine ran fine at running speed. Was a trial getting into the slip.

Over the winter, I pulled the carb off the Honda 8. I found what looked like bits of my black rubber gas line in the carburetor.

Several articles on the hazards of ethanol-laced gasoline later, and I am convinced that the alcohol "ate" my hose and deposited the crap in my carburator.

In light of this, I have to check the thickness of the gas line from time to time to make sure it is not thinning too much and clean out the carb at least once a season, if not twice.

As far as I could tell, there's no source of non-ethanol-based gasoline available (except for white gas for Coleman stoves at $6.50 a gallon) any where in the 50 states. You all in Canada may have it better, but we have gas containing a highly corrosive substance that eats outboards!

Edited by - Voyager on 05/06/2008 21:42:47

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 21:46:00

Clean gas and a good fuel line are the ticket!

Many fuel lines are made on the cheap. Not only faulty crimps on each end of the fuel line but the valves in the bulb can go bad as well. A little air allowed in at either connection will prevent your motor from starting.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 22:40:07

All the mechanics are telling me to treat every tank of gas, so I am now using both Startron and the new Marine Formula Sta-Bil. The latter is more expensive than its standard predecessor, but the cost per gallon is equal, and they claim it has more corrosion inhibitors and cleaners. BTW, the mechanics are saying that Honda is telling them to use stabilizer due to the very rapid octane loss in E-10 gas. Gas tends to sit longer in boats than in cars and trucks, and also in their carburators and injectors. These mechanics are supporting the combination I'm using. Considering what I paid for my engine (don't ask) and what service could cost on a fuel injected V-6, I'll invest the roughly 15 cents total per gallon of gas for both additives. (The 10-cent BoatUS discount on gas to covers part of that.)

Any other products I can push tonight?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 07:27:28

I also treat every tank of gas. This spring I replaced my fuel tank and changed my fuel line to an alcohol resistant one. Additionally, my Merc has a very fine mesh fuel filter that I check periodically.

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 10:38:33

Here is another possibility. My old Merc 5 hp has been running great. Last used it about 3 weeks ago and it was fine. Went out last week and it wouldn't start. Cleaned plug, checked fuel filter, tried Hot Shot, nothing worked. It would fire, but as soon as the Hot Shot was burned would quit. Happily, there came a mechanic to work on somebody else's boat and I asked him to take a look at it. Engine fine. Water in the gas. Now I feel stupid. Question: I know that I left the vent cap open because I frequently forget to close it. We have had heavy rains. Could enough rain water have seeped in around the open vent cap to foul the gas? I dunno, but that stuff came from somewhere..

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 10:52:15

Here in upstate New York Mobil is still selling gas without ethanol in it. As far as I know it is the only major brand doing so. I can also tell you that I burned up my leaf blower with an ethanol based gas [10%] ethanol. I do have 10 gallons of Mobil stored and treated with Stabilfuel.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:01:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by crcalhoon
 Could enough rain water have seeped in around the open vent cap to foul the gas?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">There's another possibility... Ethanol absorbs moisture from the air. At some point, it becomes "saturated" with moisture. Then, when the temperature drops, it releases that moisture, which goes to the bottom of the tank and stays there. This is call "phase separation." The cycle can repeat many times, and a tank with an open vent "inhales" and "exhales" daily as the air temperature rises and falls, providing a fresh load of humidity for the ethanol to grab.

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