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Batteries up front

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moserd
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/20/2009 : 10:44:45

I have seen a couple of comments where folks have moved their battery forward and have a few questions. I have noted that my bow is quite high (2005 -WK) especially now since my marina has not turned on the water yet and my tank is dry.

I am considering moving the existing battery forward and adding a second. I would rather carry useful weight rather than 'dead weight'. That being said here are some questions:

Does it really make sense to move the battery and add a second rather than weight? (Rocks are cheap)

If I use rocks (sacked I am sure) how to do keep them from moving around?

Should I connect the batteries together (parallel of course) and charge together or use a battery separator switch?

If I use a switch where is a good place to put one?

Should I upgrade to a dual channel charger or simply insure that my existing unit has the capacity?

Does anyone have measurements for the 'tray' to hold the batteries in the forward storage area? (I hate re-inventing the wheel?)

By the way, we had a huge 'gravity wave' wind storm the other day ( 60-70 mph for > 3 hours) and I have found that my outboard is a $2,000 fuse; it protected the boat when the piling broke!)

javascript:insertsmilie('

Don Moser

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2009 : 12:39:00

Lots of good questions. I chose not to move the batteries forward because I have my charger and breaker panel and meter on the aft bulkhead area. Others have moved their batteries and I am sure they will chime in.

Our crushed rock was purchased at Home Depot and came in 5 55lb bags (275lbs total). I bought wrapping plastic on a spool, also from HD, and wrapped each bag. That not only seals any leaking of the bags (two years and not a grain) but it also makes the bags stick to each other. I have them pushed way up in the bow and they haven't moved a bit in all that time.

The amount of weight to use depends on your particular situation. We have wheel steering which addds weight to the aft along with two batteries and a Honda OB. I don't mind the added weight at all, the boat is very stable and handles very well. Note that some people have added no weight and are happy with that too. Like many things, it is a matter of personal preference, no right or wrong.

We do not use a switch on our battery bank. I treat it as one logical unit and both drain and charge the bank as a single unit. We use a 10W Charles smart charger and have been very happy with it. With this charger you can be charging the 12V system and using 12V devices at the same time - not possible on some chargers.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/20/2009 12:44:23

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2009 : 15:44:21

I first used (bag) sand and it worked very good. After a few week long sailing trips it was discovered that the standard 12 gallon water tank was not enough. So I got this great deal (thanks again Paul

) on a 35 gallon water bladder. I took out the sand and plumbed the water bladder in just forward of the existing water tank. Also installed a water pump and plumbed a cockpit wash down connection. Mainly used for showers or a cool down on those hot days. Also can be used to repel borders

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2009 : 16:29:54

I would add another battery only if you need more amps ..
how do you use the boat ?
if dont have any battery issues ..i would just add the weight to the bow and see how you like it

Edited by - on

moserd
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2009 : 17:42:45

I don't really need any additional capacity (power) and I am beginning to lean toward the 'add rocks' and try it as well. I have not experienced any problems with weather helm even without the water tank filled. I can let go of the wheel in 10-15 mph and it will track fairly well. As a matter of fact I have a bad habit of going forward to reef while single handing allowing the boat to sail herself. That is another issue I have; I want my reefing lines in the cockpit. It just looks odd with the bow out of the water; can't be good.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2009 : 20:03:44

Do you get Mainsheet? In the November 2008 edition I did an article in the C250 Tech section on deploying two-line reefing with the lines led back to the cockpit. It is an easy job and makes reefing easy while maintaining good sail shape.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2009 : 22:09:03

Don, I posted this a year ago March:

"In an effort to simplify mainsail reefing, I removed the entire 250 interior boom factory delivered system. I then ran a single line from the luff cringle, down to a mast step block and back to the starboard clutch. At the leech, I put a single line through the reefing cringle and down to a cam cleat with a fairlead I attached to the boom. When it's time to reef, first I secure the luff, then the leech. The sail is tucked into my lazy jacks. Quick and easy. To "unreef", I first pop the leech line out of the cam, then release the starboard clutches and haul the sail back up with zero resistance."

Shortly thereafter I added a cleat beneath the cam to better secure the leech line.

Edited by - AADIVER on 04/20/2009 22:09:27

moserd
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 05:07:15

I thought I had seen the article somewhere, I'll look at my back issues and try to find the Nov 2008 issue.

Thanks,

Don

Edited by - on

Navy1
Navigator

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USA
126 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 16:46:33

Hey, Tom Potter, where did you get that 35 gallon water bladder? And how much was it? I had been thinking of using 4 or 5 water softner salt bags for ballast up front, but think the water bladder would work better. Thanks - Roger

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 16:57:35

Sorry Roger! it was a one time deal.

Tom! Have you flown the spinney yet?

Paul

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 17:18:55

Navy,

See if you can find a water bed store nearby. i bet they have bladders there that would work! You might ask about having a memberane custom formed for the boat. Just be sure tis strong enough that it won't leak, and that there are no sharp objects where you plan on putting it.

Another thing, you might be concerned with how brittle the membrane gets in the winter - remember Paul is in Florida (dammit - wish I was so lucky) and Tom is in North Carolina. Neither of them are as frosty as us in Decembuary...

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 17:27:03

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/26404/377%20710/0/water%20tank/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=water%20tank&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=water%20tank&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=11&subdeptNum=27&classNum=300"]Flexible Water Tanks[/url]

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2009 : 06:57:58

See this link for how I added 2 batteries up front. Lots of weight, plenty of power. Easy to build and run the wire.

http://turk.mysailboatblog.com/technical/

Edited by - on

moserd
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2009 : 09:48:36

Just what I wanted to see; do you have any dimensions of what you built or how you sized it?
What gauge wire did you use to connect to fuse panel and how did you route it through the galley?

Thanks,

Don

Edited by - on

Navy1
Navigator

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USA
126 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2009 : 17:02:32

Chris, Thanks, I'll check it out.

Randy, Thanks too, I didn't know
WM handled those water bladder tanks.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2009 : 17:17:31

Roger - Go to West Marine - the waterbed thing would be a hassle.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2009 : 18:17:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by moserd
 Just what I wanted to see; do you have any dimensions of what you built or how you sized it?
What gauge wire did you use to connect to fuse panel and how did you route it through the galley?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Believe it or not, I used my companionway cover as the original pattern for the base of the battery floor. I then cut the angle just a bit more to get it to fit the bow. I used 2 x 4 to block it up. Just set your batteries on the board and block around them.

I believe I used number 6 duel wire used in home installations. It is heavy single core copper and will "form" to the hull as it follows it's way back to the panel. I went through the starboard seat and drilled a small hole to allow the wire to enter under the sink. From there it is easy to go up to the panel. Run it to the panel neg and pos bars. Watch your polarity. Make your own wires and lugs to connect each battery together. Pay attention to it's construction as you do not want it to short between each battery. I used closed loop lugs that you crimp on to the wire.

Make sure your battery platform is far enough forward to allow you to remove the water container if you have to one day. I glassed the whole assembly to the inside hull using fiberglass cloth and epoxy. Built up several layers and it is very strong.

Use battery boxes as you will not be opening this compartment that ofter and you don't want any spillage of acid to be of any concern. My solar panel and I'm sure any charger will case the battery acid to perk up out of the battery. The boxes are great in containing this.

I used two group 27 batteries (109 amp/hr) and they are very heavy. I got them from Sam's club (marine battery - not outboard starting battery) for $48 a piece. They have been great for powering everything I need.

One note: after fitting your board to the hull, set a battery on it and see if you can close the compartment up. It will be close to the point I can't use the original table stored there. Fortunately I replaced the original with a smaller teak table that stays up all the time. The battery box covers touch the two boards that cover the opening. Perfect!

Edited by - Turk on 04/23/2009 04:58:38

MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2010 : 12:42:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Turk
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by moserd
 Just what I wanted to see; do you have any dimensions of what you built or how you sized it?
What gauge wire did you use to connect to fuse panel and how did you route it through the galley?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Believe it or not, I used my companionway cover as the original pattern for the base of the battery floor. I then cut the angle just a bit more to get it to fit the bow. I used 2 x 4 to block it up. Just set your batteries on the board and block around them.

I believe I used number 6 duel wire used in home installations. It is heavy single core copper and will "form" to the hull as it follows it's way back to the panel. I went through the starboard seat and drilled a small hole to allow the wire to enter under the sink. From there it is easy to go up to the panel. Run it to the panel neg and pos bars. Watch your polarity. Make your own wires and lugs to connect each battery together. Pay attention to it's construction as you do not want it to short between each battery. I used closed loop lugs that you crimp on to the wire.

Make sure your battery platform is far enough forward to allow you to remove the water container if you have to one day. I glassed the whole assembly to the inside hull using fiberglass cloth and epoxy. Built up several layers and it is very strong.

Use battery boxes as you will not be opening this compartment that ofter and you don't want any spillage of acid to be of any concern. My solar panel and I'm sure any charger will case the battery acid to perk up out of the battery. The boxes are great in containing this.

I used two group 27 batteries (109 amp/hr) and they are very heavy. I got them from Sam's club (marine battery - not outboard starting battery) for $48 a piece. They have been great for powering everything I need.

One note: after fitting your board to the hull, set a battery on it and see if you can close the compartment up. It will be close to the point I can't use the original table stored there. Fortunately I replaced the original with a smaller teak table that stays up all the time. The battery box covers touch the two boards that cover the opening. Perfect!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Tom,

I'm going to move at least one battery up front; I wanted to have a look at your Web site, but the link is dead.

Is there an updated link?

Thanks,
Martin

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2010 : 14:39:24

Roger,
You can get the triangular water tank for about $105 on Ebay, that's what I paid for mine (as yet uninstalled). Just search for Plastimo Triangular tank. There's a company in FL that sells them all the time, can't recall the name offhand.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2010 : 06:23:45

We have the 2nd tank installed, the Triangular Plastimo, same as above, wanted to add forward weight and needed more water.

Now after a few years of use we're rethinking it.

The normal plumbing for the tank requires a T in the water filler pipe (2" flexi spiral wound hose) and then a second T in the internal supply (5/8" tubing?)

The 2" flexi filler piping tends to leak a bit despite several attempts to make it dry. And emptying the plastimo is always an issue, can never get the last 5gals out without sitting in the V berth and putting feet on the tank while pumping water out.

So we are looking at replacing the plastimo with a second rigid tank or replacing the original rigid tank with one a larger version.

Of course we tend to use our boat exclusivly for crusing (minimum planned sail is 4 nights) so reason might be different.

Recently we have been much more storage minded! We make much better use of the storage under both cabin seats, and we're starting to move stuff forwards (have to reach down and fwd to get the stuff out). It's making for better living conditions in the cabin. If we remove the plastimo tank, then we'll have some additional 'long term' storage down there.

So IMHO the decision to move the batteries or add weight or extra tank really depends on how you use the boat.

Paul

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2010 : 18:13:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MartinJW
Hi Tom,

I'm going to move at least one battery up front; I wanted to have a look at your Web site, but the link is dead.

Is there an updated link?

Thanks,
Martin
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry Martin, I killed the Website after I sold the boat.
Tom

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2010 : 18:50:46

Tom, that's a bummer. You had a lot of good info there.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 18:16:41

http://www.elmhurstprop.com/webbat/Photos.html

Edited by - on

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