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Mast raising/lowering - pics added

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/25/2010 : 07:29:05

Check this out:
http://www.mastmate.com.au/
Click on the videos link. I've emailed these people. The heavier version will work with rigs weighing a little over 100 lbs.
BTW, a Boomaroo is Australia's Catalina 22.

I'm experimenting with coming up with my own "MastmateSC" type gizmo using 7/16" bungee cord. I'll let you know how it goes.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 07/14/2011 11:26:48

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 10:20:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 << 7/16" bungee cord. >>

I've photographed many Bungee cord eye injuries in my life... All I'm sayin here...be careful. Wassa matter.. rope not good enough for ya???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

I reckon you've seen this video of how to drop the mast?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ray, that video is amazing. It took us hours to do the same work a few weeks back. I need to get details on the "A Frame"

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 12:22:04

Thats my video showing how I lower the mast to get under a bridge at the end of my canal.
Here are the parts I use:

http://www.youtube.com/v/EsLxujYRsMQ?

The A-frame is constructed from EMT conduit. If you only lower the mast once or twice, you wouldn't need all the parts that I use. The A-frame can be constructed with a vice, hack saw, drill, file.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 12:55:01

Someone else was using an a frame with 2x4x10, a bolt, and carabiner, but I can't find the post. They may speak up shortly..

It sure helps to see that video, it was great of dave to edit and post that. It always gives me the creeps to drop it, but with instruction it is not a big deal.

Beats learning that Indian Mast Mounting Technique...

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 14:14:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 Thats my video showing how I lower the mast to get under a bridge at the end of my canal.
Here are the parts I use:

http://www.youtube.com/v/EsLxujYRsMQ?

The A-frame is constructed from EMT conduit. If you only lower the mast once or twice, you wouldn't need all the parts that I use. The A-frame can be constructed with a vice, hack saw, drill, file.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Terrific. Having spent hours to unstep and re step mine recently, it was really nice to see your technique.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 14:18:51

DavyJ,
Those videos show your great skill at re-engineering the standing rigging for convenience in dropping and raising the mast. It's just fantastic what you've done!

Ray,
That was my 2x4 A-frame. It does the trick, if you only use it rarely.

My boat was not in the water at the time, and I could use a mast crutch attached to the gudgeons, instead of the dedicated frame over the transom. I used the cabin top halyard clutch and winch to lower and raise the mast. Next time I would use fairleads running to the winch on the coaming, like DavyJ does.

I have to say that in the absence of the quick-release pins on the forestay, backstay, upper shrouds, and foreward lower shrouds, it took me about 2 hours to deal carefully with those items before dropping the mast. But nothing broke, and I had beginner's luck!

David,
It's not clear from the video what holds the mast up when it is being lowered. How does it work? Looks like bungees are attached somehow to the sail track on the mast.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 14:39:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have to say that in the absence of the quick-release pins on the forestay, backstay, upper shrouds, and foreward lower shrouds, it took me about 2 hours to deal carefully with those items before dropping the mast.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Most of the equipment that I showed is intended to speed up the process. I think that the average person who needs to raise or lower the mast would only need to do it once or twice a season and would only need the a-frame, line leading to winch and block at stem fitting.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's not clear from the video what holds the mast up when it is being lowered. How does it work? Looks like bungees are attached somehow to the sail track on the mast.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am not sure I understand this question? There are no bungees. The only item holding the mast up is the forestay, attached to the a-frame. The forward lower shroulds are also attached to the tangs on the opposite ends of the a-frame and keep the mast from swaying side to side.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 19:05:03

Peter, I'll be up your way around Thanksgiving. If any of you guys up there have a need to take down your mast at that time let me know and I'll bring my a-frame along.

It's really easy. I lowered my mast by myself about 6 months after I bought my boat and didn't have any problems. Took me maybe 30 minutes to rig up the a-frame and get the mast down after I got my nerves composed. Going back up I didn't loosen the uppers enough and had a little problem getting the mast to go over the "hump". Once I loosened them it went right up.

One thing that would make it easier to maintain control of the mast would be a small remote controlled winch like the ones use on ATV's. You can attach to the far side of the dock and let the mast come down slowly while you guide the mast down

Something like this -->> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200381900_200381900

Edited by - GaryB on 08/25/2010 19:10:57

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 20:57:09

I did a write-up about making an A-frame with 2/4's, a bolt through at the top and a pair of carabiners, one for the forestay and another for a block & tackle from the A-frame to the bow stem, borrowing the idea from someone else. Unfortunately, I lost the a-frame when it flooded here May 1-2.
I tried out the bungee tonight when we hauled out my friend's C-22. It was attached to the headsail tack snap shackle at the bow and to the jib halyard, then tensioned slightly. I'll add here that the 7/16" bungee cord is about 10 ft long with a 5" loop in each end made with EZ Splice brackets. I have a 3/8" carabiner at each end, overkill maybe. The bungee is doubled up so the loops are together in one carabiner and the second carabiner is at the other end.
As I lowered the mast straddling it to keep it centered over the boat, the bungee started to stretch taking on the weight of the mast as it passed the 45 degree mark. I'm sure I don't have it adjusted correctly yet, but it does seem to work, assisting with the weight of the mast as it comes down past the 45 drgree mark and on down to the waiting Mast-up pole on the stern.
BTW, 7/16" bungee has a working load strength of well over 100 lbs. so it is up to the task. My main concern was getting the length right for the proper amount of stretch. I figure that I'll need to double it up again for thre C-25 mast, or maybe use 2 of them. We'll see. I'll try to take a photo tomorrow.

Edited by - dmpilc on 08/25/2010 21:03:30

MastMate
Deckhand

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Australia
1 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 21:29:02

Hi All;
If I may introduce myself, I am David and I have developed the MastMate mast raising systems and have received a huge number of hits on the website today and they have emanated from this forum. So I would like to say a couple of things, my SC system is not a bungee cord as such and does not have any sharp parts to injure eyes it has a safety sheath that restricts the amount of "stretch" that can be imparted to the product and this sheath has a 6 tonne breaking strain so if something did go wrong the mast can only fall about 150mm, also the internals are compartmentalised so should something occur only 25% of the strength is affected, the use of BabyMates keeps the mast on the centre-line of the boat and disallows any lateral instability, this can be appreciated on a youtube clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E01szZdkV7I
also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6UOG5AI9Ic
This shows a different system that I make.
I am not trying to promote the products, only to show that they are safe.

I hope that the above clarifies the product.
Regards David

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2010 : 08:33:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Peter, I'll be up your way around Thanksgiving. If any of you guys up there have a need to take down your mast at that time let me know and I'll bring my a-frame along.

It's really easy. I lowered my mast by myself about 6 months after I bought my boat and didn't have any problems. Took me maybe 30 minutes to rig up the a-frame and get the mast down after I got my nerves composed. Going back up I didn't loosen the uppers enough and had a little problem getting the mast to go over the "hump". Once I loosened them it went right up.

One thing that would make it easier to maintain control of the mast would be a small remote controlled winch like the ones use on ATV's. You can attach to the far side of the dock and let the mast come down slowly while you guide the mast down

Something like this -->> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200381900_200381900
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Cool, we will have to go for a sail! Email me whenever it gets closer to when you're coming up and we'll get together.One good thing is we have a crane in the marina so I think next time I'll just use that. powers_peter(at) yahoo.com

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2010 : 08:39:30

DavyJ,
Could you post the specs on the mast support attached to your stern rail, especially the length of the cross bar. I want to add that to our boat.
And thanks for posting the videos. Very instructive! since I lost the 2x4 A-frame, I'm looking earnestly at the metal A-frame you built.

Edited by - dmpilc on 08/26/2010 09:38:35

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2010 : 09:20:34

David,

Thanks for sharing the demo videos.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2010 : 09:30:33

Thanks Davy J for your effort in producing your 2 videos. This is HUGE insight into mast raising/dropping. I will be using your technique this year to rectify a burnt anchor light!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2010 : 09:39:26

Thanks guys. One of these days I will get around to having my wife film the entire process while I do it step by step.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Could you post the specs on the mast support attached to your stern rail, especially the length of the cross bar. I want to add that to our boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I can measure the crossbar tonight, but, I think, it should be the exact same measurement as the distance between the supports on the stern pulpit. The two mast supports on each side can be whatever length you need/desire, but mine extend all the way down to the top of the cockpit. Also, I think that the height I made mine, was so that the mast would not touch the pop-top when it was lowered.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2010 : 09:40:33

JohnP,
Which video are you referring to?

Also, here are pics of what I put together:

The bungee goes between the jib halyard and the snap shackle at the bow stem. Alternatively, if you have a bow roller secured to your mast holder on the bow pulpit (to hold the mast while trailering) the bungee could be attached to the winch strap which run over the roller. In order for it to assist with raising the mast, after securing the mast to the step the bungee would be tensioned. Then as it is lifted, the bungee will want to contract, helping to lift the weight of the mast.
To be honest, I have no idea if this is safe, so proceed at your own risk. If you have an A-frame, then this type of assist may not be necessary.

The plastic connectors are EZ Splice gizmos.

Edited by - dmpilc on 08/26/2010 14:13:38

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2010 : 14:20:17

We use a modified A-frame to put th emast up and down between 2 adn 6 times per year. We dock on th elake but take th emast for transport home and to Georgian Bay.

When we travel to G-bay, we have to be able to stow the mast on board, adn for that reason we designed a collapseable frame that can (with some effort) be stowed in either "the Dumpster" or under the aft berth (serious squeezage to get it in there though, adn nearly impossible to extract).

Our frame was built by cutting a pair of 2X8's down to 5' long, then hinging the cut portions, this means that when unfolded we have a 8' A-frame, not as long as recommended, but still enough leverage that my wife (110 lbs) can lower or raise the mast. We do not have a bolt in the head of our A-frame since the hinge holds things together. We thread a line through the head of the frame and attach caribiners there. The 'beeners are clipped to the forestay, and a spare halyard that is removed especially for the task of lowering.

When we raise the mast, the system is again deployed, but in raising we use th espinnaker Halyard, cleated off to a mast cleat. DO NOT ATTACH your halyards to the spinnaker pole ring on the front of your mast. we did that once and had th ering let go of its position. The mast came down quick, and shock loaded the halyard to within an inch of removing the pushpit. It was scary. At least no one was hurt.

For a long time I was a big fan of lowering/raising th emast forward. Now I am ambidextrous and ambivalent. I can go either forward or aft. There is an unintended nuance there, please ignore it. Many will say you cannot lower or raise the mast from the pulpit, but it works for us. Shrug.

We have a frame to hold the mast at the back of teh cockpit. You can see it in pics on the Iris blog.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2010 : 09:52:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 JohnP,
Which video are you referring to?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I could not see the where the elastic material was attached in either video.

It makes sense to me now, if the bungee stretches from start to finish during the lowering, and the force tending to retract the bungee increases with its stretch, then it seems that more force is provided by the bungee at the end of travel of the mast downward. That's what you want for this system.

But what's the purpose of the slidey-wheely-thingy on the mast?

Edited by - JohnP on 08/27/2010 09:54:17

dreddick
Navigator

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117 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2010 : 21:06:40

We use an A-Frame, mast crutch, and our trailer winch to raise and lower the mast and it has worked quite well. I have been meaning to put pictures and narrative on a blog but haven't got around to it, yet. Here is a link to the pictures though...

http://tinyurl.com/24nulrr

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2010 : 20:47:07

David R.,
What type of pipe did you use to connect the A-frame to the forward lower chainplates?

John P,
From what I could tell, the slide/wheel device is a mast crutch/support that supports the mast as it is raised/lowered and replaces the mast support pole on the stern when the mast is down. It is attached to anchor points on each side of the companionway and appears to be used with a short gin pole and baby stays for lateral support.

My bungee contraption worked well with the C22 mast. The C25 is next.
Requires a bit of experimentation to get the tension level right.

Edited by - dmpilc on 08/31/2010 10:45:56

dreddick
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Response Posted - 09/02/2010 : 09:33:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 David R.,
What type of pipe did you use to connect the A-frame to the forward lower chainplates?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Regular conduit.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2010 : 09:45:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dreddick
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 David R.,
What type of pipe did you use to connect the A-frame to the forward lower chainplates?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Regular conduit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There are 2 types of conduit. One type is softer, and can bend easily, and the other type is much more rigid. You want the rigid type.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2010 : 17:43:11

It's called EMT conduit.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2010 : 13:28:40

DavyJ,
Did you use 3/4" conduit for the A-frame? Do you think that will be strong enough for a tall rig mast?

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2010 : 14:38:20

I used 1" EMT conduit. I have never lowered a tall rig mast, but, I don't think there will be alot of difference. The weight of the mast is mostly carried by the forestay and the line leading to the block at the stem.

Here is an old thread on the topic with some more details:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17522& SearchTerms=video

Edited by - Davy J on 09/08/2010 14:50:11

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2010 : 18:20:14

I ended up going with Davy J's A-Frame setup and it worked great.

I'll be using it again in 2 or 3 months when I pull the boat for it's first ever (at least since I've owned it) winter storage/hull polish/bottom job.

Edited by - on

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