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Mast raising/lowering - pics added

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2010 : 10:28:11

For those who have a trailer, it would seem that the easiest way to do this is to attach the forestay to the trailer winch. Use a mast support in the rear for the first 20 degrees. Then winch it up using the anchor roller.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2010 : 11:48:37

The A-frame carries a portion of the weight of the mast (as the mast goes up, progressively more of it's weight is carried by the tabernacle) and the downward force of the line lifting it, and that is equal to the proportioned mast weight. If the mast is level, that is twice the weight of the mast. I'm not going to calculate the vectored force of the mast at 20º, but even though it will be less, I was not comfortable with the strength of conduit and went with 2X4X10's. The conduit obviously works for many.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 11:14:29

I gave up on the conduit idea as I had no viable way to bend the conduit at the ends and made up another A-frame out of 2x4x8's. It's a little short as it gets close to the deck, but I think it will work.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 12:41:02

It will take much more of a heave to get a tall mast started with 8 footers, but it isn't an issue when the mast is nearly up - a modest push from behind will cover the last few degrees.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 18:57:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 I gave up on the conduit idea as I had no viable way to bend the conduit at the ends and made up another A-frame out of 2x4x8's. It's a little short as it gets close to the deck, but I think it will work.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Just beat it flat with a hammer and then bend the flattened sections slightly in a vice.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2010 : 05:06:18

Why is the A-frame better than a gin pole?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2010 : 14:18:20

My experience has been that the mast is much less likely to have lateral swings with the A-frame. The arc of the gin pole centers on the mast tabernacle while lines from the gin pole securing to the forward chainplates pivot at deck level. As the stabilizing lines slacken, the load can let the gin pole tilt and the mast swing laterally. The A-frame suspends the load from the apex of a rigid triangle, so the mast has a better chance of staying midline. It also helps that I suspend the roller furler from that same point so it doesn't provide an imbalance. Raising and lowering the mast became a safe and easy one man operation when I changed to the A-frame.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2010 : 16:25:18

Thanks Dave - excellent explanation - I'm sold on the A-frame.

Now, if I can just make it out of strong, light weight, non-rusting, non-scratching materials

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 15:11:30

Finding my sub-conscience working overtime on this project.

Would it not save some hardware if you turned (permanently) the forward most chainplates so they line up with the a-frame legs (where the base of the leg attaches to the chainplate?)

This only makes sense - but for port-starboard stability - the upper shrouds remain attached (losely) to their respective chainplates during raising and lowering? The same for rear lowers and back stay to keep the mast from falling forward?

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 17:27:39

I copied the conduit A frame, however I didn't bend any of the conduit. I left it just short of the furler so it would clear the drum. I drilled a hole through both pieces and bolted them through with an eye bolt. On the ends to the chainplates, i did the same thing with a short piece of conduit. I drilled the holes first, mounted them and then lined them up with the long pieces. I bolted through the two with two plastic washers in between so it would rotate well. I have used it many times and it is so easy.

I keep the uppers attached while raising, and they get just tight enough to keep it in place.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 19:51:13

OJ, We have a 2X4 A-frame. We remove the forward lowers, and use a strop tied through th ebase of teh 2X4 and through the deck fittings for the shrouds. Even though the foot of teh A-Frame is not right next to the fitting, the A-frame won't go anyplace since the feet are anchored.

The deck takes teh weight just fine.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2010 : 09:04:23

Has anyone using a 2x4 A-frame tried attaching the A-frame to the forward lower chainplates with just rope, such as a high strength 1/4" rope, in lieu of a bolt or pin?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2010 : 10:48:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Has anyone using a 2x4 A-frame tried attaching the A-frame to the forward lower chainplates with just rope, such as a high strength 1/4" rope, in lieu of a bolt or pin?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, thats what I said in my post above. We just tie them in place with a short strop, about 6" or so.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2010 : 13:55:37

Me too.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2010 : 15:30:41

Either we are very strong or I don't understand the danger. After disconnecting the wireing at the base of the mast and loosening the bolts somewhat, I had my son stableize the mast by standing next to it while I disconnected the forward stays and the forstay. I connected a line to the forstay and ran it through a block on the bow back to the starboard winch.

As he slowly let the mast come down to the stern ( preventing any side ward movement) I slowly slackened the line on the winch and had another man standing in the cockpit to guide it onto the "Mast post" I made out of 2x4's and placed in the rudder gudgons. It was very easy and putting it back up was easier then taking it down. I winched it up. I think it weighs about 80 lbs.
I am going to take the mast down and put it back up this time on camera. I will put it on my website when i go it.
http://www.blackpearl.vacationinnc.com

Also look there for "line drawing swing keel".

Edited by - NCBrew on 09/30/2010 15:31:45

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2010 : 15:46:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 Either we are very strong or I don't understand the danger. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Your method sounds good. As long as you use some kind of safety line, to control the mast as it comes down, I don't think there's much danger, but, just in case, I always tell my helpers that, if the mast starts to get away from them, just let it fall. Don't get under it or try to catch it.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2010 : 17:25:25

Same here Steve - lowering is a breeze, adn we don't use the A-frame for that.

NC Brew - how do you go about raising the mast?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2010 : 18:26:50

That works fine when you have 3 people. The only problem is the very high load that you are putting on the stemhead as the mast nears horizontal if you aren't using a gin pole, but that is much less of an issue with a standard rig.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2010 : 18:41:32

Dave,

Once the mast is beyond about 60° the person walking under it can easily bring it down the rest of the way, taking the load off the halyard. Since mine is a standard rig, this method really works well for me.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2010 : 07:22:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 Either we are very strong or I don't understand the danger. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Your method sounds good. As long as you use some kind of safety line, to control the mast as it comes down, I don't think there's much danger, but, just in case, I always tell my helpers that, if the mast starts to get away from them, just let it fall. Don't get under it or try to catch it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I had no safety line as I thought it was not necessary given the weight of the mast. I used the same line as taking it down (do not remember size) and my son helped it along to get it started. I think he could have put it all the way up (Which I think he did) as I was cranking on the winch.
I think all the other hardware and things can lead to more chance of a breakdown. KISS is my moto.

Edited by - NCBrew on 10/02/2010 07:25:21

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2011 : 04:15:16

I wanted to change out the mast plate about 3 years ago. I've yet to reach that project on "The List". Should I get all my materials together, another sheave still needed, I look forward to the rebuild.

Now I've got a Honda Civic and about 1500 board feet of Pine board laying around so I'm about to make a foldable A frame.

Within the next three years...

Edited by - redeye on 06/28/2011 04:50:20

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2011 : 10:35:21

I've added a mast support to the stern similar to DaveyJ's. The uprights are 4' long 7/8" OD aluminum, center is 30", and the corner pieces are stainless elbow joints. The tube over the center section is a spare turnbuckle boot. It's held in place with 4 hose clamps.

For transporting the boat, if it becomes necessary, I've built this wooden support, which should fit below the metal one. The idea is to drop the mast to the metal support, then move it down to the wooden one for trailering. (I know, I've got too much spare time on my hands at the moment!)

Actually, looking at the pics together, they may be closer in height than I thought. If the wooden contraption turns out to be taller, that's ok too.
The cool thing about the wooden support is that I can install/remove it without taking it apart.

Edited by - dmpilc on 07/14/2011 10:48:22

tbosch
Navigator

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2011 : 13:48:59

I'm in the same camp as NCBREW, with one variation. I disconnect the backstay and lower/raise the mast to the bow pulpit. I attach the main halyard to the mainsheet blocks. To raise the mast I'm at the bow and get the mast on my shoulder. My wife hauls away on the mainsheet using the winch. I walk the mast up. I like to start from the bow because I can easily walk the mast all the way up and help balance any sideways motion. When you raise with the mast leaning over the cockpit you can't walk it up. An important detail is that the boat must be in line with the wind. We haven't had an issue yet and I like the simplicity.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2011 : 18:01:18

DavidP (DMpilc), where did you get the elbows and aluminum? Did you go with polished aluminum? How did it hold up?

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NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2011 : 05:20:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Same here Steve - lowering is a breeze, adn we don't use the A-frame for that.

NC Brew - how do you go about raising the mast?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I use the JIB halyard. It takes 1 man in the cockpit ( one foot on each seat) to get it started so the 2 men on the cabin top can get a hold on the mast, the rest is easy. in actually you don't even need the line to the winch.

Edited by - NCBrew on 11/06/2011 06:46:17

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