Association Forum - How many sailors does it take to change light bulb

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

How many sailors does it take to change light bulb

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/23/2011 : 15:32:10

Well apparently only one, but it took 3 1/2 hours, a dremel tool, a trip to West Marine, a vice, a hammer, a punch and a few new words that I made up on the way!!

It all started out easy enough. The goal; change out nav lights to LED.

How hard could it be? Two screws, remove bulb, insert new LED, two screws, done. Not so fast, son of a son of a sailor.

The first problem; the two screws that hold the lens cover to the fixture on the bow light were badly corroded. A phillips screw driver rounded out both screws in quick order.

A dremel tool was called in to grind a slot into both screws so that a regular screw driver could be used.

This plot worked until the top screw broke into two, and then the bottom screw broke the fixture. A decision was made to replace the fixture, the lens was badly crazed anyway, so it was not a big deal. A quick trip to West Marine and the installation of the new fixture was underway.

Until half-way through installation,..... it was discovered that the bulb that came with the new fixture, did not look like the old one!!! Uh-Oh!!

A few new words were added to the English language,

and removal began.

The problem was that the old fixture used a dimpled festoon bulb, the new LED bulb also was designed as a dimpled festoon bulb.

The new Aqua Signal 25 fixture came with a regular festoon bulb. The contacts on the new fixture did not come into contact with the bulb contacts.

The fixture was taken to the vice, a hammer and punch were called in, a sacrificial piece of 2x4, a few new words were added to the English language,

and the new fixture is now designed to be used with dimpled festoon bulbs. 3 and half hours later we now have LED bow and stern lights to go with the LED anchor light that I replaced last spring, but that is another story!!!

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 15:41:30

sounds like a typical sunday afternoon project here, except that nearly all parts have to be ordered and wait on UPS or Fedex, then i have to rediscover tool locations unless they are in #2 son's welding truck 350 miles to the east!

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 15:46:35

I was trying to think of a pun about looking on the bright side...

So... is the anchor light next?

Paul

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 15:57:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I was trying to think of a pun about looking on the bright side... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The bright side

is that I got to replace the bulb and fixture in my back yard. As opposed to traveling at night and not being able to replace a bad bulb.

The worst part is job time was originally estimated at fifteen minutes!!

I replaced the anchor light last year, a lot less eventfull!

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 16:21:16

Nice job with the innovation and the story Telling Davy J

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 17:32:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Nice job with the innovation and the story Telling Davy J<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It was alot less fun... at the time.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 17:46:28

Reminds me of trying to repair my deck/steaming light bulb and anchor light. 7 hours and had to drop the mast.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 19:23:16

Mine is a 6 month project.. don't feel bad.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 20:28:41

The admiral once suggested that I just double the time that I originally believe a job will take and use that as an estimate. I told her that I already do.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 20:47:38

I am sure it was annoying at the time having to go thru setback after setback until finally completing the job. But it's great getting past all that and then looking at the final product - In the end, a job well done !

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 20:53:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 The admiral once suggested that I just double the time that I originally believe a job will take and use that as an estimate. I told her that I already do.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My rule in software development: Take the programmers' estimates, multiply by 1.5 to account for their underestimating the task, and then double the result to account for interruptions, meetings, etc... (...even though the programmers thought they'd accounted for that.) That arithmetically simplifies to "times three." And that assumes they'll voluntarily work nights and weekends!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/23/2011 20:55:09

skybird
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 22:29:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tradewind
 Reminds me of trying to repair my deck/steaming light bulb and anchor light. 7 hours and had to drop the mast.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is a job i have to do also--nothing up the mast works and mine has a tricolor as well as anchor light up top. I bought the wiring kit from CD and LED bulbs from Mastlight.com....now for the time--at least the boat is on the trailer right in the front yard!

Edited by - on

TCurran
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2011 : 03:55:25

Had the same idea with the LED bulb, when I saw the differences between the two bulbs I just returned the LED to WM...might have to schedule 3-4 hours and try again. Good job Dave

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2011 : 06:20:14

All of our boat tasks have a MF factor. That is the number of times Harvey and I say MF throughout the process. According to my wife there is a mathematical algorithim that will give a solid estimate of time based on Cost, tools involved, tools involved that I don't own, MF factor and parts availability. The algorithim correctly predicts the time you need to finish the project. Unfortunately, the second you own or work on a boat, you are unable to do the calculation. The words, 'The two of you, a (insert power tool here) and that boat cannot be a good thing' have been uttered more than once.
We've tried cussing at the onset to try and rid ourselves of the undo time, errors and rework, but apparently the swearing on all boat projects must be sincere or it doesn't count.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2011 : 08:22:19

Here's an interesting article on switching to LED's. The 2nd half is more current:

http://members.cox.net/sholley1/led.htm

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2011 : 21:36:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Champipple
 All of our boat tasks have a MF factor. That is the number of times Harvey and I say MF throughout the process. According to my wife there is a mathematical algorithim that will give a solid estimate of time based on Cost, tools involved, tools involved that I don't own, MF factor and parts availability. The algorithim correctly predicts the time you need to finish the project. Unfortunately, the second you own or work on a boat, you are unable to do the calculation. The words, 'The two of you, a (insert power tool here) and that boat cannot be a good thing' have been uttered more than once.
We've tried cussing at the onset to try and rid ourselves of the undo time, errors and rework, but apparently the swearing on all boat projects must be sincere or it doesn't count.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I cannot tell you how long I've been laying on the floor laughing my head off with tears running down my face! This is honestly the funniest thing I have read or heard in a long time!

My wife is totally in sync with what you've stated as she's seen this scene happen many times. Especially when working on the car or boat.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2011 : 07:12:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My wife is totally in sync with what you've stated as she's seen this scene happen many times. Especially when working on the car or boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My wife's theory is that there are angels all around you to help.

My theory is that they are all around you,

but since they don't have a body they have nothing better to do than to bung things up for you so that you go around screaming, cussing, throwing things until you finally beat something into submission with a hammer!!

It's got to be like Comedy Central!!

Edited by - Davy J on 01/25/2011 07:23:35

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2011 : 12:02:23

If you are looking at LED's there's a standard becoming common that indicates the life expectancy of the lamps.

Lumens maintenance: this refers the effective Lumens output of the lamps over their lifetime.

Some lamp manufacturers may indicate that their lamp has a LM79, or LM80, the 79 & 80 refer to the % of stated lumens at 50,000 hours.
(Hope I have my facts right

)

Anyway, If the LED's on JD are LM80's then that means that they should maintain at least 80% of their intial Lumens output upto 50,000 hours.

Now it's reasonable for us to use the Anchor light for 8 hours, 4 nights a month, or 32hours a month.
So the lamp should be ok for about 130 years... hmmmm, might have a bit of a corrosion issue by then

Paul

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4023 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2011 : 14:34:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So the lamp should be ok for about 130 years... hmmmm, might have a bit of a corrosion issue by then

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ha Ha... Or no boat to keep them out of the water...

Edited by - on

Alan Clark
Captain

Members Avatar

406 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2011 : 12:16:12

Has anyone replaced the anchor light with an LED? Is it the same fixture or do you need to replace the fixture on top of the mast also?
Using your anchor light with an LED I would assume would also be brighter?

Edited by - Alan Clark on 01/26/2011 12:36:06

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2011 : 14:16:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Has anyone replaced the anchor light with an LED?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I replaced my anchor light with a Dr.LED Bulb last year. I'm not sure if it is brighter, but it uses a lot less energy. It was installed in a Aqua Signal 25 fixture. However I needed to replace the original fixture when I bought the boat so I can not say for sure if it will fit in yours.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2011 : 15:53:58

I replaced the Aqua Signal with a new LED Fixture sold by OGM OrcaGreen. The fixture also has a photodiode in it that turns the light off as soon as the sun comes up in the morning. (Though, it cost a bit more than an LED bulb. But was less expensive 5 years ago compared to what it sells for these days.)

https://secure.orcagreen.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16142& cat=250& page=1

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5368 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2011 : 18:21:18

As I related in another thread, the Aqua 25 fixture and the Dr LED lamp [seen on the right in DavyJ's original post at the top of page 1] is not a good physical match.

While it will fit into the fixture, since the top of the mast is subject to lots of violent swinging, the lamp will not reliably remain electrically connected to the fixture, and will easily disconnect from the electrical contacts inside the fixture.

I have looked at a way to fill part of the fixture with clear silicone to firmly hold the lamp in place, but it is at best a KLUGE.

The lamp on the left in the first photo seems more likely to remain connected and stable in the fixture. I would still try to secure the lamp with silicone, double-sided styrofoam tape or rubber cement if possible.

Of course, you should not use any "stickum" directly on the electrical contacts, as this will prevent the lamp working. You'd have to try out several different approaches to make the lamp secure in the fixture.

Think of the forces the mass of lamp undergoes while the boat is waked on the slip or at anchor, or out in the slop and chop.

Edit: Aside from the price, Larry's "all in one lamp and fixture with photodetector" might be the best solution of all.

Edited by - Voyager on 01/26/2011 18:23:33

Alan Clark
Captain

Members Avatar

406 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2011 : 19:37:16

Thanks for the Information. I agree that the Orcagreen fixture as a whole is probably the best. But we do not anchor out enough to justify the cost and we put the mast up and down twice a year so there would be jarring of the fixture. My thought is to leave it like it is as I have replaced the lens cover so it would be effective. at least for now. we are not in salt water so that is not an issue.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2011 : 22:28:05

Back 5 years ago, they were selling LED bulbs to stick in existing fixtures but there were not as many choices as there are now and ...well I was wrapped up into this USCG approved thing and the USCG does not approve just bulbs, they approve whole fixtures and given how confusing comparing one LED bulb to another it can be, I felt better buying the whole fixture. But with each year that passes, there seems to be more and improved bulb choices that come out and quite frankly...seems like a much better idea fooling around with a ~$25 bulb vs buying an LED fixture at more than 8 times the cost. Then...there is the possibility that an addl mount will have to purchased or custom made to attach the specific LED fixture to the top of the mast. So...it's quite understandable why many go with trying just a bulb replacement.

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/27/2011 05:14:58

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2011 : 05:07:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As I related in another thread, the Aqua 25 fixture and the Dr LED lamp [seen on the right in DavyJ's original post at the top of page 1] is not a good physical match.

While it will fit into the fixture, since the top of the mast is subject to lots of violent swinging, the lamp will not reliably remain electrically connected to the fixture, and will easily disconnect from the electrical contacts inside the fixture.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bruce is correct about this. When I replaced my anchor bulb, the Dr.LED bulb looked like the the bulb on the left in the first photo. Apparently they changed the design.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.