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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Traveler Repair Help

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/28/2011 : 12:06:40

While out sailing the other night, playing with my traveler for the first time, I had to call it quits early because one side started pulling loose:

It didn't come out (thankfully) and I caught it in time to douse sail and motor back.....I went out today to try and fix it, no luck there. I emptied the dumpster and removed the wood partition, but there's just no access to that bolt. The fuel locker is in the way, and without some complex system of mirrors, socket extensions and u joints, I just don't see how to get at it.

I'm thinking of cutting an access port, either where circled, or more likely inside the back wall of the fuel locker:

Anyone have a better suggestion? Am I missing something easy?

Scott

When we left, we had just enough fuel to make it to San Juan. And now... we are out of fuel!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 15:07:03

Wow, that's the first time I've seen that. Does it seem like the traveler is loose from the nut unthreading or did it crack off? Others here have discussed removing/reinstalling transom hardware. I believe one or two have even created a custom extended wrench of sorts. It's tight up there for sure.

Catalina Direct sells a replacement - looks to be bolted from the bottom. A modifed design perhaps?

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=340&ParentCat=34

If you do decide/need to install a new traveler, Lowell in the tech department can provide helpful advice on how to tackle the project.

That's an ugly spot to place an access hole - both aesthetically and practically IMHO.

Edited by - OJ on 05/28/2011 15:27:33

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 15:30:50

That's been a frequent issue with the C-22 crowd. The spot you circled in black is the most likely place to cut an access hole. Options for covering the hole typically are a Beckson port which has a removable cap or a stainless louvered vent cover.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 15:39:22

Before you cut an access port, talk to a local welding shop that does stainless steel welding (There should be one any boating area) and ask if the can do a weld in place on the boat. It might be possible with some kind of heat sink arrangement. IMHO It's worth checking out before cutting holes in the boat, especially to repair a part of questionable value like the original C25 traveler.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 17:31:40

Drill a hole through it and bolt it back down?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 20:24:20

Isn't there an access down below in the quarterberth?

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 20:39:28

My guess is the bolt came loose and worked it's way off or nearly off....and when I moved the traveler leeward on one tack it pulled it up. I'm hoping the bolt is still there and hanging on by a thread, so to speak, and that's why it didn't pull completely out.

No, there's no access to it. The fuel locker is in the way.

I'm not sure what you would weld to? It's just a metal bar bolted through a hole in the top of the transom...nothing I see to weld it to.

The traveler was somewhat effective while I played with it. It made a noticeable difference in heel and weather helm. Besides, the boom is sheeted to it....so no sailing until I fix it or something.....

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 20:45:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 No, there's no access to it. The fuel locker is in the way.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do you think it would be possible to cut an access hole from inside the fuel locker then reach up?

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 20:49:44

Thanks for that link OJ....confirms my suspicions that I'll have to cut an access hole. When you feature a link to a louvered vent, to cover the access hole you need to cut....on the traveler bar page.....well, that says it all....

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 20:57:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier

Do you think it would be possible to cut an access hole from inside the fuel locker then reach up?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Quite possibly the way I'll go, purely for cosmetic reasons. It'll have to be a bit bigger hole so I can get my whole arm in there, and I'll have to seal it with a cover so fumes can't get into the dumpster or boat.

Edited by - on

bobsta
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2011 : 03:24:33

What about cutting the access hole in the in the middle of the transom in cockpit area - that way you can use the new hole for tightening rudder fittings and the other side of the traveler when it comes loose.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2011 : 10:07:36

The way everything is shaped back there, access up under the top of the transom is extremely difficult. If I'm gonna cut a hole, I'm going to do it as close to the bolt I need to access as possible. The other side is much easier to access thanks to the quarter berth. The port side is such a pain because of the fuel locker. While nice to have it isolated from the lazerette, it makes access back there impossible.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2011 : 16:31:37

Buy new lines... ew.

Multiple extensions on a ratchet wrench can reach the nut from the quarterberth lower gudgeon access plate; it will be very frustrating before you are done. An upper gudgeon access plate would be a better option than the little hole you plan, it will serve more purposes.... like bob said.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2011 : 19:22:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Buy new lines... ew.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

LOL...yeah....the traveler and backstay rigging are pretty nasty. They're solid, just nasty.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 06:10:57

If I'm not mistaken, The problem is in the backing plate that Catalina used. In earlier models they were plywood. The plywood gets wet and eventually the nut gets loose from being pulled up into the soft plywood. Later years they changed to a metal backing plate. Look through the archives for this and a possible answer. I don't remember when the change over occurred. If you haven't drilled the access hole for your upper rudder gudgeon you might consider doing it now. I believe you can reach the traveler nuts through this hole. The end result being you will only have the one hole that will let you change your Gudgeon when needed and also access the traveler nuts. I'm not 100% sure on this, I will look at my boat later today and see if the nuts can be reached through the Gudgeon hole.

Edited by - islander on 05/30/2011 06:15:09

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 06:58:44

For an entirely different idea...

Since a week after I bought the boat, I have been eyeing the smallboat traveller arrangement from Harken. The track will fit across the transom, and you can still open the dumpster. If you race and you want to stay class legal, just put a stop in the track at the same location as the existing traveller. I checked with my PHRF measurer, and in his opinion that would be fine for our races.

I went as far as buying the traveller track and teak to mount it on, but never got to installing it. Another item on the to-do list...

Others have moved the traveller to various locations in the boat, a search will bring up loads of ideas. I would love to get rid of the stock traveller. It looks like your boat is trying to help you out.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 08:07:43

I've thought about that as well...just getting rid of the stock traveler alltogether and going with something else....

I don't think I'll be able to reach the bolts if I cut an upper gudgeon access hole. The space is narrow and I'd have to try and work my arm sideways, then up and through to get at it.

I'm really leaning to cutting through the back wall of the fuel locker. I can cut a big hole that will give me access to everything on the port side of the transom...it's a thin fiberglass wall, so easy to cut and not structural.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 11:27:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't think I'll be able to reach the bolts if I cut an upper gudgeon access hole<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I looked at my boat and I agree that It would still be difficult to go through the Gudgeon hole. You would need multiple short extensions, A swivel and a socket. All going at a 45 deg. angle in a space that is 2in. at best and trying to get the socket on the nut blind without the socket flopping over sideways. If you can get the starboard side from down below I would cut the port hole through the fuel locker and cover the hole with an access plate or a piece of starboard. This way nothing shows from the outside. My biggest concern would be that the nut hasen't pulled through the backing plate if its rotted wood.

Edited by - islander on 05/30/2011 11:30:27

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 17:07:43

UPDATE: Fixed It

But it wasn't easy, didn't go as planned, and wasn't what it seemed to be.

I first cut a nice big hole in the fuel locker. Got a 6" plate system from West Marine...cut the hole, sized it, mounted up the trim ring....all good so far. Then, I reached up inside to grab ahold of the nut....something's not right...I still can't get at it.

Look closely at the picture. There's another ledge up there and the bolt is obscured by about 1/4 of it's head. I can grab it, but there's still NO WAY I'll ever get a socket on it!

Who designed this thing????

I thought....reached....grabbed....thought....for almost an hour....and it's simple: There is no way to access that BOLT from underneath...and yes, it is a BOLT, not a NUT....those threads are the bolt, it screws up into the tube. There is a big flat washer and a lock washer under the bolt head...but there is only one way to tighten that sucker up...open end wrench from the side. You can't even take the bolt out! It had to have been put in before the deck was bolted to the hull.

So, I made the hard choice and cut another hole:

You can see the bolt, the ledge holding it (also blocking it from a socket!), the washer and lock washer. This picture was when I first got it cut, it was very rough. I cleaned it up real good with my Dremel tool, radiused the corners and smoothed it out, so I didn't leave it like that. It's all glass back there...no wood core...I know...I cut a chunk out of it!

Used an open end 3/4 wrench and cranked that puppy back down. She's all nice and tight again. As far as a cover, I needed something....so I went to Home Depot and got an outdoor outlet cover in white...siliconed it in place and screwed it down. It'll work for now.

Okay...so, it's done. Fixed it. Cut two damn holes in my boat to do it...but at least I now have access to everything on the port side back there and it doesn't look too much like ass.

I wonder how that bolt came loose to begin with? It wasn't stripped out....it had a lock washer.....motor vibration over the years? My guess was it's been like that and when I sailed with the traveler over to port the other evening, it pulled it up and revealed the loose bolt...only, there's not enough room under there for that to have happened. I hate to think I missed it until then...but I guess you can't catch everything...but dang, that was a pretty important "thing" to miss....

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 18:02:00

Excellent effort there Scott!

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 18:36:24

Thanks man....it was an all day affair today....

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 01:34:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
Who designed this thing????
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This guy :-)

...but I agree with you. I love this boat, but there are many places you can't reach to repair something.
Strange is, how the bold could loose when you cannot put the socket over it? Are you sure, that the threads in the traveler are ok?
I would just tighten it by hand and put some thickened epoxy over the nut so it could not move anymore.

Anyway, thanks for sharing with us.

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 05/31/2011 01:38:21

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 05:43:20

Edited by - on

calden
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 07:15:28

Thanks for the education. This will help the rest of us when our travelers loosen up. I might have put some loctite on that puppy.

Carlos

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 08:17:36

The threads are fine...it tightened up good, the material is solid....I can't imagine how it backed out. I've gone back and looked closely at all the pictures I've taken of the stern since I bought the boat, but none of them are close enough or clear enough to show it.

Don...even if you did somehow manage to get that socket ended open end up in there and on the bolt...it's a 3/4....there's no room to turn it. I had to cut the slot wide enough to allow the wrench to swing.

I hope none of you guys ever have to tackle this one.....

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 18:53:27

Kudos to Scott for taking the time to post verbiage and pix of this repair . . . something that makes this such a great website!

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