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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Wheel steering set up

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MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/26/2012 : 11:29:03

Thought I would post some pics of my wheel/helm set up. Its an edson wheel, pedestal and engine controls. Navpod instrument enclosure and pedestal guard. Raymarine ST60 tridata display which shows water temp, depth and speed. And an ST60 wind sensor. The two are connected to show true and apparent wind speed. Then there is a fuel gauge which runs to a pickup I installed in my gas Moller gas can. And the key for the outboard. The compass is a Ritchie. Also, there is a swingout mount for my handheld GPS.

The wheel is a 22" and we have a quick release nut so when we are not sailing we pop the wheel off and stow it so we have more room.

Here you can see the cup holder that I made out of the same composite decking I used for the swim platform.

This is the quadrant system that is supplied with the edson setup that articulates the rudder. This is mounted in the port "junk trunk" locker on the transom

This is the view under the cockpit floor. The control cables come out of the pedestal and the wiring comes down through the pedestal guard tube.

This is where the shift and throttle cables exit the transom along with the electrical control bundle for the outboard. The plumbing you see is from a washdown pump mounted in the bilge and feeds a handheld sprayer stored in the shallow locker on the starboard side of the cockpit. The battery cable is routed under the aft floor and passes though under the shelf. Also you can see the outboard stiffener brackets.

This shows how the steering quadrant passes through the transom and attaches to the rudder

And here is the outboard with the attachments. Everything is quick release and I take the outboard off when I store it in the winter. The whole process takes less than 5 minutes (same for installation). The battery cables are 00 with a forklift battery connector. The outboard itself is a 2001 Yamaha 9.9 extra long shaft high thrust that was used on a large fishing boat as a kicker motor. It was already setup for remote controls when I bought it.

Next job is to add a small flip up table for meal time.

Chris
Sacandaga Lake, NY
1984 C25 SRSK
"Les's Moor"

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2012 : 12:22:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MrKawfey
 Wheel steering is a must on a C25! how do I know? My wife told me it was!

Seriously though it's mostly a wash. The only real downside is losing space in the cockpit. Actually it's not even the space, it's maneuverability around it. You gain a nice place for instruments and cup holder. The biggest benefit (for me) is the ability to control the outboard while I am standing up and facing forward. It used to be such a pain to reach over the transom and work the outboard tiller while trying to see where we were going. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Losing space is huge, the biggest downside of the C-25 in my view is the small cockpit. If I were to grow the boat 2' I'd put all of that extra length back into the cockpit. I'm probably not the C-24 target owner though, and perhaps should own something more like a San Juan 28 or J/27. When racing or just doing social sailing we often have 5 on board, and have had as many as 8.

I also prefer to sail with a tiller. I've only sailed one boat with a wheel (a Catalina 34) and it's been a while, but I didn't like the disconnected feel that I got with the wheel. With a tiller it is very easy to feel if there is weather or lee helm and I know exactly which way the rudder is pointed. As I said I'm very inexperienced with wheel setups though.

How does the wheel setup change your outboard steering? It doesn't look like your outboard has a steering cable, but maybe I'm missing it. The motor can be fixed in position for either steering configuration. I normally leave my motor aimed straight, but do steer with it in a few special instances.

Finally, when you are heeled heavily or sailing in large waves do you get water coming in through the rudder control rod? I can't tell how well that is sealed, and it is pretty far outboard and low on the hull.

Edited by - on

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2012 : 13:01:54

My real issue with space in the cockit is beam not length. I have a friend with a Hunter 26 and the same wheel set up and it is so much easier to manuver around his boat because of the wider cockpit. I have never seen water coming in the steering arm fixture. One of these days I will look over the side to see if it dips in the water when heeling, but I don't think it does.

As for steering feedback, there is a lot of feedback through my wheel, but that is because I took the time to make sure that the cables were tuned and had no play in them without being too tight. I have sailed several boats with wheels and the feel has been all over the map. I think that with a little time tuning the setup you can really improve the feel of wheel steering on any boat. I think most people with the larger boats don't take the time to fix it or are intimdated by playing with something as important as steering.

The outboard is locked in the straight forward position. I have seen people tie the ruder to the outboard, but I have never found a need for it.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2012 : 13:35:38

The length is an issue when the crew is large, and how much that matters is going to depend on your normal sailing conditions. It is never an issue if my wife and I are cruising, it is often an issue if we're going racing or having a social sail.

With the motor locked forward how did switching to wheel steering make it easier to steer while under motor power?

The case where I often turn the motor directly is while waiting in the queue to get through the locks (Lake Union is fresh water, there are locks to get out to Puget Sound which is salt water). While standing in the queue I need to more or less stay in the same position. If the front end starts to come to the left turning the motor to the right and giving it a tiny burst of forward throttle will make the boat go straight again without moving it fore or aft.

The other time that I steer with the motor is when I'm going in tight circles while waiting for draw bridges to raise up.

Those two scenarios probably don't affect most C-25 owners.

I do occasionally find it useful to steer with the motor while in reverse. The rudder isn't as effective as the motor in this situation.

It looks like you did a nice job on the conversion, and I'm glad to hear that wheel steering can be adapted to retain a lot of feel.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2012 : 14:00:49

We all have our "personal goals" for our boats and sailing experience. It is wonderful that you are so excited about the extras on your boat. You are not likely to engender much envy however as both the wheel and platform are so extreme on a Catalina 25. Many of us are die hard tiller skippers and a wheel would be removed if it were on a boat we bought. Once again though for you and those who also think a wheel is appropriate for a Catalina 25 it is great that you have done such a good job with it and are sharing it with forum members.

Keep posting.

Edited by - on

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2012 : 15:58:27

Thanks Frank, not trying to brag about our setup or insist that it is preferable. As I mentioned in my very first ever posting I have used this website for years as a resources and decided I should start sharing instead of just taking.

Truth be told I prefer the tiller set up also. My wife and I came to sailing through opposite directions. I grew up sailing small boats and never sailed anything with a wheel until I was an adult. My wife's family were always power boaters and any sailing my wife had done was on larger boats with a wheel. Before we bought this boat we did quite a bit of chartering and always with a wheel. When it came time to buy our own boat we each had our priorities, mine was "must be trailerable" my wife's was "must have a wheel". Now we are both happy.

I never really understood why some people can't seem to deal with a tiller, but I have sailed with plenty of people that really struggle with it. They can't sort out left from right and push from pull. When you add a windvane to the mix and tell them to hold a heading with respect to the wind direction it just gets worse. Just something different about the way some people process information I guess. Most of our guests on the boat are non sailors and I find that having the wheel is a great way to let them participate without being intimidated.

As for the swim platform, that I can say is probably the single best modification I made on this boat. We spend a lot of time anchored and swimming off the boat and the platform has made that part of boating so much nicer and easier. Climbing in and out is easy for even the oldest passengers, there is a clear place to jump from, you can dry off before dripping all over the cockpit cushions, you can shower while standing on it, etc. In the end it has zero effect on the sailing characteristics of the boat so there is little trade off.

Alex, the improvement in steering is only indirectly related to the wheel. Even when I had the tiller I had the motor locked in direct forward position so I can't compare steering with the motor to steering with the rudder. For sure turning the motor will give you much more control over the boat than using the rudder (which requires you to be moving to work). My point about the improvements was related to moving the controls for the outboard to the pedestal. Rather than having to reach over the transom with one hand on the outboard tiller and keeping the other hand on the boats tiller, while seated ONLY on the starboard side (cause that's where the motor is), I can now stand behind the wheel and operate the motor from the levers on the binnacle. I just have better vision and easier reach to the things i need. Not to mention, if the motor stalls i just turn the key. The old one was a pull start and could be real trouble if it stalled while I needed to watch where we were going.

Also, I ought to mention, with the exception of the navpod enclosure and the undermount ladder, everything here was purchased used via eBay or from craigslist and I have personally done every last bit of work myself. I don't want to give the impression that I just throw money at my boat without any thought to what we are doing. Getting good deals on this stuff just takes time. It took me almost 3 years before I finally got the raymarine equipment on eBay for a price I was willing to pay.

Edited by - MrKawfey on 07/26/2012 16:03:48

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 04:58:10

Thanks for the pics! I was always curious as to how it was set up.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 05:21:50

Nice setup, thanks for that detailed photos!

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 06:04:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It took me almost 3 years before I finally got the raymarine equipment on eBay for a price I was willing to pay.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've been watching eBay for a Tacktick T033 wind system, at a price I'm willing to pay, for about two years....still no luck.

Edited by - on

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 09:15:10

Davy, i think I had better luck with the raymarine system simply because they have been on the market for so long and they introduced their new system recently. The new system uses a data bus with many more components. It is ungodly expensive but the big boaters were all upgrading so that meant lots of used st60 stuff.

I love having the wind display for guest helmsmen. Non sailors tend to get a crick in their neck staring at the wind vane constantly, at least this lets them look at something in their line of sight. Hang in there sooner or later you'll get one and once it's installed you will love having it. Also, several people on this site have mentioned minnies yacht surplus in Costa mesa ca. I have bought a few things from them and found their prices to be better than eBay.
Good hunting

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 09:20:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My point about the improvements was related to moving the controls for the outboard to the pedestal. Rather than having to reach over the transom with one hand on the outboard tiller and keeping the other hand on the boats tiller, while seated ONLY on the starboard side (cause that's where the motor is), I can now stand behind the wheel and operate the motor from the levers on the binnacle. I just have better vision and easier reach to the things i need. Not to mention, if the motor stalls i just turn the key. The old one was a pull start and could be real trouble if it stalled while I needed to watch where we were going. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ah, this was not very clear in your first post, so I thought that you were talking about a different set of benefits.

My motor throttle sits in a predictable place at the transom, so it is pretty easy for me to adjust while looking ahead. It just isn't a problem that I've had to worry about. I can see how this would depend both on the motor being used and it's height on the transom. I'm using a Tohatsu 9.8A3 with the 25" shaft, so the motor head can sit reasonably high. The Tohatsu may also have a longer tiller than some others.

I like having electric start and can agree with you on the benefits of that. I still do a pull start once in a while to make sure that the pull starter is working, but I use electric start pretty often.

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MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 09:42:49

Yeah my old Johnson outboard was a bit of a mess. I noticed that some of the C25's in our club have the controls mounted in the footwell. I could see this being a big improvement over the outboard tiller. I considered this because when I bought the outboard it came with a control box, but i was able to sell it on eBay for 2x what the edson controls cost. Also, i got to keep the cables and wiring!

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2012 : 07:34:21

THAT is impressive...thanks for the photos!

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2012 : 11:54:17

Chris, nice setup. Thanks for sharing these detailed picks.

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