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What tender should I get?

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indecentseas
1st Mate

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Canada
67 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/26/2013 : 19:49:29

I need a tender for my boat.

This is our second season with our beloved Catalina 25. We have been out on more overnight trips this year. We would really like a tender. I suspect the reasons are obvious but:
-we need a way to get to and from shore with our gear when we change over control of the boat.
-it would be nice to explore the bays we anchor at, and even to get onto shore

Right now we are using a $20 inflatable toy boat that claims a max capacity of 2 persons or 210 pounds.The inflatable was good fun for exploring but would never be able to accommodate two people with gear. It developed a leak despite our best efforts to avoid rough spots.

I really like the idea of the inflatable. I don't want to drag a little boat around behind our Cat. I also don't want to have to store a small boat back at the marina. I don't want to have a solid kayak taking up precious deck space. I imagine our battery would have enough juice to inflate a modest sized craft.

Any suggestions? Any inflatable boats We should look at? Preferably something that stowes well in the boat. It would be nice if there was room for two and a bit of luggage.

David Hopkins
Vancouver, British Columbia
'78 Swing Keel, Standard Rig, Dinette
#534

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2013 : 20:11:07

I see small inflatables like Avon, or Zodiac on a fairly regular basis in Seattle's Craigslist for around $700. We paid exactly that for an Avon 3.15 with a 4hp outboard several years ago. We eventually sold the OB for $325, so we got the Avon for less than $400. If you're looking for durability, get a Hypalon instead of PVC. Avon only makes Hypalon, and Zodiac makes both (I think?). There are many other makes out there, so do your homework.

Ours has an inflatable keel, so it tracks reasonably well, and I actually like rowing it even though I'm looking for a tiny OB for it.

We tow ours behind the boat instead of trying to fold/roll it up. You need a fair amount of space to get to fold properly. I suppose you could do it on the foredeck, but I'm not sure I'd want to try.

Edited by - delliottg on 08/26/2013 20:12:33

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 04:51:01

I picked up one of these a few years ago when they were on sale at WM, think I paid about 650.00:

It seems WM doesn't offer it any longer. But it was made by Zodiak, so they may still have a similar model. Rolled up with the slats still in the floor, it will fit into the dumpster, although it takes a little coaxing.....

I also constructed a solid wood floor that can be used instead of the slats. It's more stable with the solid floor.

After a few trips storing the dink in the dumpster, I gave up, and now just tow it instead. The amount of effort to bring it out, set it up, and get it overboard will make you not use it at all...

So if you want to stow it, one of the roll-up models will do. But, my advice would probably be, to get a solid floor and just tow it.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 06:34:25

Hi David,
Kathy and I have owned a fiberglass 9' Fatty Knees sailing/rowing dinghy for many years... and love it. The Fatty Knees rows nicely, is fun to sail, and only "costs" about a third of a knot in boat speed while being towed.
In addition, my brother Bob built his own 10' Nutshell pram sailing/rowing dinghy... and he really likes it. So, if you are handy with wood, that might be a fun winter project.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 07:19:47

I used this Zodiac Zoom with my Catalina 25:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|215570|1794282|1794295&id=2165248

When deflated it fit into the back of the quarterberth or under the dinette (when the table was down). It doesn't row very well, we primarily used it with a 2hp outboard motor. It's comfortable for 2, but not much more. It's pretty durable.

These days I use a rigid Dyer Dhow Midget dinghy that rows 10x better (and is fun to sail). I'm comfortable rowing my Dyer Dhow for miles (the longest trip so far was 4 miles) where I hate rowing the inflatable for more than a few hundred feet. The Dyer Dhow fits on the foredeck of my 28' boat and leaves room for me to get into the anchor locker. I think it would fit on the Catalina 25, but be very tight and access to the foredeck would be tricky.

It also tows very nicely, though I don't like towing a dinghy in big water (an example near you would be when crossing the Georgia Strait), so I wouldn't recommend buying a boat that you could only tow. A couple of big waves can turn a dinghy being towed into a liability.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 08:38:45

I picked up a Bombard/Zodiac/Typhoon 235 Aero 7'-9" inflatable on clearance from Defender a couple of years ago for $699. It rolls up into a cover that fits nicely on the foredeck when not in use or tows well behind the boat. I take it home and store it if I am not going on a trip that requires its use. My previous dinghy was an inflatable with a hard floor and no keel. It was very difficult to steer without the keel. The new one has an inflatable floor and keel. It is easier to setup than the hard floor model and the keel makes it steer quite nice. The inflatable floor is easier on the feet then the hard floor and is exceptionally stable. I use an older Yamaha 5hp 2-stroke engine on it because I like to cruise around in it. If I was just using it to go ashore the available 2hp engines would be plenty.
[url="http://www.bombard.com/en/tenders/?typhoon-an"]Bombard Aero 235[/url]

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 09:19:13

Dinghy discussions are like "anchor wars!"

There simply is no "best."

The three most important characteristics/criteria are: 1) how do you intend to use it; 2) how do you transport it; 3) how easy is it to assemble?

WM Advisors has a good discussion: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorView?langId=-1&storeId=11151&catalogId=10001&page=Inflatable-Boats#.UhzQBz_geNU

On our C25, we had a 8'-4" plywood floor WM (like Avon) hypalon with 1.2 hp "egg beater" Johnson outboard. I loved the boat 'cuz it held two people, was stable enough for our use, could go long distances if we brought along an extra 2 gallons of fuel, and stored well on the foredeck. I disliked, with a vengeance, the plywood floor assembly. I loved the oarlocks: they were the kind with a pin for the oars, so they never went anywhere they weren't supposed to go. Hard to find these days.

My experience is that if you can or are in a position to leave the dinghy inflated for long periods of time, the plywood or aluminum floors shouldn't be an issue. If you have to take it apart each weekend, you will come to loathe that "feature." Get either an air floor or the slats then. If you get an air floor, buy some outdoor carpeting and cut it to fit the bottom so it tucks under the tubes - keeps the floor in great shape.

Good luck, happy hunting.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 10:01:07

I wanted to add that I don't find plugging in a compressor to be necessary. A foot pump got both of our 8' dinghies (I also had an Achillies LT3Dlx) fully inflated in about 5 minutes.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 11:15:05

Agree with the foot pump. I can easily inflate all three tubes in my Avon in easily under 10 minutes.

Also agree with the sentiment that the slats (which is what mine has) are a nice "feature", until you have to deal with them, and then they become more of a liability. I'd think an air floor would be better in that instance, although almost certainly less durable. Easier on your knees though. I can't imagine trying to set up or fold the dinghy onboard the boat. Unfolding it would probably somewhat OK if you could then launch it over the lifelines with a halyard or something. Getting it back on deck & re-rolled? It almost takes three people to do that on a picnic table where it's easy to get to.

I've never owned a hard dinghy, but I like the idea. A long time ago I started building the nutshell pram mentioned above, and never got past making the building frame and some of the laminations. If someone's interested (you'd need to be local), I'd let you have the frame & the plans for a song. It's just taking up space in my backyard.

I had a shot at a $100 Walker Bay 10 on CL a while back, but unsurprisingly it sold almost immediately. It was right around the corner too. I'd be very interested in a 10' Walker Bay with tubes and a sail kit. I think that'd just be a kick in the pants. I just don't want to drop $2k or so on it.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 14:03:29

David, Alex,
Long ago I shortened my lifeline and added a snap shackle to the end to allow me to unconnect the lifeline and deploy or lift the dinghy onto the foredeck. Makes it a much easier task. I can do it by myself. I hate using the manual pump though as it slips and slides all over the deck when trying to apply pressure and trying to keep your balance while your footing is slipping is not a position to be in. I do not currently have an electrical pump to use but you can bet your bottom dollar I will before I use it again.
[url="http://www.defender.com/images/602398.jpg"]Snap Shackle[/url]

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 14:17:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I shortened my lifeline and added a snap shackle to the end to allow me to unconnect the lifeline and deploy or lift the dinghy onto the foredeck<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Love it, Now why didn't I...Never mine. Love it.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 14:21:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 David, Alex,
Long ago I shortened my lifeline and added a snap shackle to the end to allow me to unconnect the lifeline and deploy or lift the dinghy onto the foredeck. Makes it a much easier task. I can do it by myself. I hate using the manual pump though as it slips and slides all over the deck when trying to apply pressure and trying to keep your balance while your footing is slipping is not a position to be in. I do not currently have an electrical pump to use but you can bet your bottom dollar I will before I use it again.
[url="http://www.defender.com/images/602398.jpg"]Snap Shackle[/url]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I almost always put the foot pump in the boat itself and pump from there. However, I'm not sure I'd want to do that on the foredeck. Maybe with the spinnaker halyard attached to my harness.

Edited by - on

danandlu
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 14:33:55

No doubt that the tender subject has maybe as many opinions as the anchor subject.

This Sevylor kayak I bought several years ago and works well for me. It has a higher pressure floor that makes the kayak rigid and has a rubber keel for better tracking. It is much easier to paddle and it stows inflated inside my 25 by first moving it forward to the V berth then aft into the quarter berth with its rear into the berth and the rest sits atop the starboard settee. Because it's always inflated I use it quite a bit, less hassle than unpack/inflate/deflate/repack that I used to do with my old tender. When I anchor out I just throw it over and restow in the morning before sailing. It tows okay too but I rarely do - I don't like the lost speed and the splashing noise.

It is better quality than Sevylor's "toys". I don't think they make it anymore, maybe there's something similar or used on ebay.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 16:49:18

My rigid dinghy weighs somewhere around 80lbs. To get it onto the foredeck I put a double block up near spreader height using the spinnaker halyard and run a line that goes from a primary winch to a genoa block, up to the double block, back to a block at the base of the mast, up again to a double block, and down to the dinghy. I keep that "crane line" ready to go so it doesn't take much to get it deployed. That greatly reduces the effort to lift the dinghy.

As I said, I don't know that it would fit on the foredeck of a C-25. My Pearson isn't much longer, but the extra beam is a big deal for foredeck space.

I never had much problem with the foot pump sliding around on the foredeck. I've only inflated one dinghy on the boat this year though. Electric pumps aren't expensive and work well, I just like doing things by hand if it isn't much more work.

Edited by - on

Arlington
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USA
196 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2013 : 22:07:46

My original grand idea was to have a tender that we could also use as a lifeboat (while sailing along the coast).

The Pros: In March I bought the same 8.5' long, 4'11" beam, 53# weight, 992-pound capacity, roll up West Marine Dingy pictured above by Davy J. It is made by Zodiac for WM and I think it is Hypalon. It does have a 5-year warranty, that is honored by the local store. WM was having a sale, they let me use a coupon, and then with no sales tax and free shipping it brought the total price to $579.00. I have seen the same sale one more time since then.

I use the dingy with a Yamaha 2-HP two stroke motor. This summer we got to put them to use. I wanted to store the dingy inflated on the foredeck, but there is not enough space. I thought about storing it inflated on top of the cabin, but with the lower clearance between the boom and cabin top for the tall rig, it would be very difficult to see between the top of the dingy and the bottom of the boom on a run. You would be sailing almost blind, looking through so many obstacles.

Deflated and packed in its storage bag, it will fit on the foredeck, on top of the anchor locker. It doesn't block your view, and we tie it down to lifeline stanchions, so it is secure, but not too difficult to get loose. We use a Coleman 120-volt air mattress pump, http://www.target.com/p/coleman-high-performance-electric-pump/-/A-11115253 powered by a Xantrex DC/AC Inverter or a 12V/120V Battery Pack to air it up. The last choice is the included foot pump; it works by foot or hand action, but is slow. Using the Coleman takes about 3/4-minutes, for both chambers.

The Cons: Even as a small dingy, inflating it with the electric air pump under ideal conditions on the fore deck is unwieldy. Secure the ores, put your foot pump inside, and throw your dingy bag inside. Don’t dump it all out. Then getting it over the lifelines or between the stanchions while it is inflated–without damaging the rubber boat–is a CHORE! Don’t forget to secure the painter to the mother ship, or don’t let the painter loose. If you are thinking that you are going to use the dingy as a lifeboat-throw your provisioned ditch bag in. Now get your outboard secured to the dingy without dropping it into the drink. Then get yourself and any crew from the mother ship into a bobbing rubber inflatable boat. This was not so easy at the dock, or within a protected cove, so I don’t think it would be a cake walk under anything like storm conditions-involving a sinking ship. I had perceived it would be a lot easier and more practical. On the other hand, it is better than floundering about in the sea, without a dingy.

I was also worried that it would be easily stolen, but at Lake Texoma, with multiple marinas and lots of dingys about, some nicer with bigger outboards. Most of them were tied up to the docks, & none of them were stolen. The Locals say that very little, if anything is ever stolen from any of the boats. After a few days we left it tied up to the adjacent empty slip, with the motor attached. It was still there when we came back.This may not be the case elsewhere, I was surprised.

Our fuel range on the motor was about two hours, I learned this the hard way. I was thankful to have a motor boat stop to tow us in...

I haven’t tried towing it yet. After practice, letting my 13-year old son use it alone to explore, allowed him to be independent and helped to make sailing very enjoyable. When we went out together, he was always the Skipper of the dingy.
Doug

Edited by - Arlington on 08/29/2013 22:09:05

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2013 : 07:04:38

The main difference between Hypalon and PVC is resistance to sun damage. If you plan to leave a dinghy out in the sun for extended periods (like all summer), Hypalon is worth the extra cost. If you plan to store it out of the sun except for days when you're on the water, PVC is just as strong, and a fair amount lighter in weight. If you buy a used inflatable, Hypalon is probably the better choice, since you probably won't know whether it's had extended exposure.

I'm not a fan of hard dinghies (except maybe the Walker Bay with its optional inflatable collar)--I find inflatables in general to be much more stable for boarding, loading, unloading, etc.

I bought an Achilles Hypalon roll-up dinghy that spends most of its time rolled up in my basement--probably overkill. It has a folding plywood floor that weighs a ton, so I cut three pieces of 2" thick polyethylene foam to fit in as a floor--they work nicely and store reasonably easily. I also have a Honda 2--the lightest motor out there now. It's a little noisier than most because it's air-cooled, which also makes it simpler. A friend bought a Suzuki 3.5, also light weight, but ditched it for a Honda because his wife couldn't start it.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2013 : 19:36:05

If you want your dinghy to be an inflatable, I would recommend you concentrate your shopping on models that are made of Hypalon (a type of synthetic rubber) instead of PVC (Polyvinyl Chloride).

Hypalon is virtually immune to most solvents typically found around boats, especially gasoline, kerosine, paint thinner, diesel fuel, and acetone (for brief exposures). The more volatile hydrocarbons like acetone and gasoline quickly degrade and embrittle PVC, making the fabric prone to cracking and delamination. A little gas spilled in a PVC dinghy and left sitting under the floorboards where it can't easily evaporate will ruin the floor fabric in a few days.

Hypalon is much stronger and more resistant to abrasion damage than PVC, and if you do manage to poke a hole in it, all you need is a Hypalon glue-and-patch kit; no heat or solvent prep needed.

Hypalon is rubber, not a solvent-based plastic polymer like PVC, so it's durability, flexibility, service life, and strength are little affected by storage conditions; i.e., if you store the dinghy when it's not in use in a closed-up garage or tool shed where it gets to 140ºF in the summer months, that won't hurt it.

Of course there is a downside: Hypalon is a little costlier than PVC because more hand labor is needed to construct the dinghy, and the material costs are a little higher. But I have had an Apex 10.5' model purchased in 2002 that has made 4 trips to the San Juans and it is still in great shape.

Edited by - on

wegman
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2013 : 18:35:19

Here is a thought on towing an inflatable that uses oars, not a motor:

Around 1988 I purchased an inflatable "Avon 8" to use in the San Juan Islands (Puget Sound) while anchoring. A boat delivery skipper had suggested towing a small inflatable by snugging it up to the top bar of the sailboat's stern pulpit (pushpit). Most of the inflatable was held up in the air, with only a bit of the stern trailing in the water. Drag was minimal, and waves could not fill the inflatable.

The Avon 8 was a small traditional hypalon raft, with oars. The stern was symmetrical with the bow. The system I describe would probably not work if a motor was used.

I used this system (same inflatable) without problems on my Ranger 20, then on my Ericson 27, then later on my Freedom 32. After climbing aboard the sailboat, I would simply snug up the painter to the pushpit. This also had the desirable feature of discouraging birds from perching on the dinghy and making deposits.

Another advantage of this system is that, as Doug mentions above, the inflatable can be used as a lifeboat. It is already inflated and attached to the sailboat, so it would be immediately available if needed.

Edited by - on

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