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Advice on Poligow application

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britinusa
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Initially Posted - 03/23/2014 : 11:47:36

I've been cleaning the hull of JD in anticipation of applying PolyGlow.

Any suggestions on the replacement of the boat numbers at the bow on each side (plus the Florida Tag on the Port side) prior to applying Polyglow?

Should I replace the black Florida ID on each side before applying the Polyglow, or apply them after the polyglow, or just leave them till they need replacing due to burn out by the Florida Sun?

The instructions advise to apply graphics before PolyGlow.
Any experience?

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/23/2014 : 13:14:26

I Poly'd right over the numbers and state sticker. I'm not sure how well they'd stick on top of PG. You could also apply around them...

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Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 03/23/2014 : 13:45:49

I did the same as Dave - twice! Once on each boat.

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oldragbaggers
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Response Posted - 03/23/2014 : 13:58:06

We applied the Poliglow with the numbers and stickers already on also, over the name decal as well.

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 03/23/2014 : 18:50:14

I Polyglow over the numbers which have been on for over 8 years. I remove the annual decal, use acetone on a cloth over the area to remove any adhesive or contaminants and then apply the new decal.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 07:53:29

I did not see this thread yesterday, so maybe it's too late. If not, then my advice is, "Don't do it."

I think your boat is too young to apply PolyGlow. You should have enough gelcoat that a good machine-applied buffing would restore the original finish and get you a superior result.

I use Polyglow on two of my boats, and am generally happy with it. It does create a slightly yellowish tint, though. For my C250, with large areas, a power buffer gets superior results without the yellowish tint.

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/24/2014 08:27:25

britinusa
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 10:46:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 I did not see this thread yesterday, so maybe it's too late. If not, then my advice is, "Don't do it."

I think your boat is too young to apply PolyGlow. You should have enough gelcoat that a good machine-applied buffing would restore the original finish and get you a superior result.

I use Polyglow on two of my boats, and am generally happy with it. It does create a slightly yellowish tint, though. For my C250, with large areas, a power buffer gets superior results without the yellowish tint.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What say ye'all on this ?

Did not get around to applying the polyglow. I have to replace the stbd side stripe and 1st attempt was awful, so need to get a new set.

Paul

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Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 11:35:43

After spending many hours with an electrical buffer and wax I switched to PolyGlow and in 2 hours, with virtually no physical effort, had a shine that was just as good.
My buffer now sits in the garage gathering dust...IMHO it is no contest between wax with hard work or the ease of PolyGlow.
Incidentally, I have never seen a yellow tint to the hull.

Edited by - Derek Crawford on 03/24/2014 11:36:30

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 11:58:04

The advice that I offered was based on advice I received from someone else here a few years ago (OLarryR, maybe?). That person told me that my boat was not old enough to need Poliglow. I've searched for the post, but cannot find it. Paul, you should consider everyone's advice in the context of the age of their boat. What's best for a 9 year old boat may be different from what's right for a 30 year old boat.

I will tell you that proper application of Poliglow requires removal of all surface oxidation. Otherwise, you'll just be sealing in the chalk. (You'll see that's exactly what the instructions say.) So with a first application of Poliglow on a Florida boat, IMO you're going to likely have to do some heavy buffing with compound either way. The whole 2-hour thing is a fallacy. To do it right, plan on proper surface prep. When I buffed my C250, I was AMAZED at how easy it was to wax afterwards, and how little wax it took. My re-buffing this spring should be relatively minor since I have much less oxidation than I did before.

FWIW, when I did Poliglow on my older boats, I wet sanded with 1000-2000 grit paper first, then compounded by hand (since they're small boats with uneven surfaces). The Poliglow took only about 2 hours, but the total job with proper surface prep was much more than 2 hours.

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/24/2014 11:58:57

oldragbaggers
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 16:19:35

We compounded, buffed and waxed our 1981 Cape Dory 28, over and over, until our arms were about to fall off. We bought 2 buffers because we were having such a hard time getting a shine with a first one we assumed we needed a better one. We did it by hand and by machine and the boat still had no shine to speak of. So we bought the Poliglow kit,used the cleaner/stripper that comes with the it to remove the wax and put on the Poliglow. One day of work (it DID take longer than 2 hours) and she looked like a brand spankin' new boat.

Now, I agree that if I had a newer boat and I could bring the gloss up without the Poliglow I would do it. I have seen Poliglow that was left without any further treatment for a few years and it turns yellow and starts to flake and peel off just like old peeling varnish, and it looks like hell. So you will need to clean off the old stuff and reapply every year or two depending on your location. It's kind of like coloring your hair. Once you start you have to keep it up. But if the gelcoat has reached the point where it won't buff out anymore then Poliglow is definitely the way to go if you're not yet to the point where you're ready to paint.

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Stinkpotter
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 16:22:54

My preparation of the two boats I've used PG on was a once-over with a fine Scotchbright pad followed by hosing down. That removed excessive chalk, enough so the initial 4-5 coats of PG reached a nice shine. Click the C-25 shot below--that was several months after a spring dress-coat (after only sponging down the existing PG). I suppose you could consider the hull to not look like a brilliant white... I guess I could have done more for a slightly better result, but I'd say the returns are diminishing.

This year, on my green hull, I'm thinking about trying Nu Finish polymer car polish--probably 2 coats. I've read good reports on its durability on boats, and application is easy--no buffing--just wiping off the haze. I think I saw a good rating in Practical Sailor. It has held up very well through a rough winter on my car. I don't think this 7-year-old hull needs PG, although Nu Finish is somewhat similar.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/24/2014 16:26:54

Voyager
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 18:14:01

Following suit with Dave Stinkpotter's PoliGlow application, Passage has received three additional treatments since 2006. I always remove the old coating using PoliPrep, clean - squeaky clean, then reapply 5-6 coats. Never saw any yellowing. Now, the manufacturer warns against using PoliGlow that has been subject to freezing temperatures. That could have been the source of the problems experienced by TakeFive.
Regarding my State Numbers - I have a set of white letters available, however the numbers on Passage are black. Over the years I've noted that the numbers have flaked off a little here and there. I got a black permanent felt-tipped pen and filled in the missing spots. Then, I coated the letters with PoliGlow - looked PERFECT! And it works every time.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 18:57:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...Now, the manufacturer warns against using PoliGlow that has been subject to freezing temperatures. That could have been the source of the problems experienced by TakeFive...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My Poliglow was stored in my house from October (when I bought it at the Annapolis Boat Show) until then next spring. No freezing.

And I never had any problems. I am generally happy with the result on my older boats. But the stuff is not perfectly optically clear, and is known to have a very slight yellow hue after applying 5 or 6 coats. It's acceptable for most people (including me), given the great improvement it provides for very old gel coat that will not buff up to a high gloss. All I'm saying, as someone who owns three boats of various ages, is that I don't think a 2005 boat fits that category. And I have yet to hear a Poliglow recommendation from anyone else with a ~10 year old boat. Something to think about...

Buffing any boat will be work. But not extremely onerous for a 10 year old boat, even with Florida exposure. If the boot stripe is chalked, some gentle wet sanding with 2000-4000 grit is needed to restore it, whether using Poliglow or wax. Otherwise, you'll just coat over the chalky blue line.

My suggestion is to buff off the oxidation first, inspect the result, and then decide whether to apply Poliglow or wax. Because the proper surface prep should involve removing the oxidation, whether you're doing wax or Poliglow.

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 20:31:18

I think your choice should depend on the condition of your boat's gel coat. Mine is in good condition, with no chalking, and I wax and buff it once a year, in the spring. It takes less than a day (my boat is 35', I'm age 71, and I have to climb up and down a ladder to wax it, so I'm a tad slow). With no chalking gelcoat, the buffer takes it off easily. It shines like a mirror when it's done. People on the forum have said Poliglow builds up after awhile, and you have to strip it off and start over. If so, then the ease of applying it is only half the job. The other half of the job is in stripping it. I never have to strip the wax off my boat.

But, your decision isn't irreversible. Make a choice and try one method, and, if you don't like it, then try the other.

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 20:41:00

Many years ago, I read that it is best not to apply Poliglow on a new boat...up to about 5 years old. The reason was that while Pliglow is a high gloss, it has a somewhat slight darker tint to it which shows up after about 3 years of using it. On new boats that have a bright white hull, the tint may be noticeable but on older boats the tint is not that noticeable . I visited the Poliglow website and I cannot find the same statement but I did find the follwoing statement on a distributor's website:
"Not recommended for new boats (for new boats, use High Gloss Acrylic Polish)" reference: http://www.fishing-catalog.com/poliglow/

So...what do you consider a new boat ? My thought is any boat that is no more than say 3 years old...or...do you consider only a boat that is really brand new ?

The other statement on the Poliglow website FAQ Section states:
"Q. Can I apply Poli Glow over my decals or vinyl graphics?

A. Yes, Poli Glow is safe to use over your decals or graphics. In fact, if you have any new stickers that you would like to apply to the surface you need to do so before using Poli Glow. You cannot apply any decals to the fiberglass once Poli Glow has been applied."
Reference: http://www.poliglow-int.com/faqs/
"

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 03/24/2014 : 20:49:45

Here's an archived thread on the topic:

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=20734

..and another...

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=19478

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/24/2014 20:52:41

pastmember
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Response Posted - 03/25/2014 : 10:02:02

Vertglass from lovettmarine.com is my choice. Island Girl now has a product too.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 03/25/2014 : 13:18:44

See, that's what makes this forum so valuable. Nobody is afraid to voice their opinion and so we get more than one side of the story.

Our sailing trip has been delayed by at least a few more weeks (hoping my left knee will improve, very painful going down stairs right now, but I was able to clamber around the boat this past weekend without much more than a nagging pain.)

So with a couple of weekends to work on it, I think I'll go the buff and polish route. The hull has no determinable oxidization, and I think it worth to hold of a while longer. Looks like I'm going to get myself a polishing buffer and lots of pads.

First I have to have another go at putting the stripe back on.. another thread!

Paul

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/25/2014 : 18:38:57

Paul, one word: IBUPROFEN.

What constitutes a new boat in this context? One with new-condition gelcoat. PG is for visibly aging gelcoat, although it's best to remove chalk first.

I'm thinking technology may have taken us past buffing wax, but I'll defer on a recommendation till I've tried Nu Finish for a season. I'm about a year behind Steve, and not obsessed with mirror shines on boats.

I can see those at boat shows. I like a moderate "glow" that says she's been cared for--not that she just got oiled up.

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 03/25/2014 : 19:09:32

I take Meloxicam daily and Soma as needed; better living through chemistry. Now there is an off topic thread we could all add value to... "Chronic pain and sailing".

Edited by - pastmember on 03/25/2014 19:09:57

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 03/26/2014 : 18:39:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 ...So with a couple of weekends to work on it, I think I'll go the buff and polish route. The hull has no determinable oxidization, and I think it worth to hold of a while longer. Looks like I'm going to get myself a polishing buffer and lots of pads...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Paul,

Have a look at this thread for some advice. It's a lot to read, but worth it.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/52772-tips-compound-polish-wax.html

There are a lot of very strong opinions expressed there, with a lot of expensive equipment, different compounds and polishes, etc. Here's my distilled version from my personal experience:
<ul><li>You don't want a lightweight buffer like what the wax companies sell at Wal Mart. You need a heavy duty one. The guy from Maine recommends Makita, and implies that you'll destroy your gelcoat with a cheap one. Even after his warning, I wasn't willing to spend that much, so I bought the #92623 knockoff from Harbor Freight. It's heavy duty, but very hard to control the speed (tends to speed up too much under load). You get what you pay for, and mine is cheap, but workable if you're very careful to back off when the speed gets too high. The Makita reportedly has much better speed control.</li><li>For perfection, you should do multiple steps with successively finer compounds, then a really fine polish. This is necessary for really old gelcoat, but since my boat is newer and not heavily oxidized, I got really good results in one step using Presta Ultra Cutting Cream. You may have to go to a professional body shop supply store for it - it's not Autozone/Advanced/O'Reilly/Pep Boys type stuff. The "Ultra" starts out as a very gritty cutting compound, but the grit particles break down as you work them, so it turns into a very fine polish at the end. Because of this change in properties as you work it, you can go all the way from aggressive de-oxidation to fine polishing in one step. I pick a 4-6 square foot area and work it over with the cream, spritzing occasionally with water from a spray bottle to cool it and keep it from getting too abrasive. The result was absolutely mirror-like - very close to perfection.</li><li>You don't want to get "lots of pads." Put your money into one very good wool pad. I used 3M #05713 yellow wool pad, and it's held up well enough to use again this year. It's not inexpensive, but it's worth it, since with the Ultra Cutting Cream it will get you all the way to mirror-like finish in one step. Relevant quote from the link:<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If your boat is not to badly oxidized Ultra Cutting Creme with a 3M #05713 pad can get you there in just one step plus the wax..! This is my absolute favorite product for compounding / polishing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></li><li>The goal is to get all of your shine from the polish. Then the wax is just a sealer coat, and with the proper surface prep that you've done it will be very easy to apply. A year earlier I had used Collinite Fleet #885 without polishing first, and it was extremely difficult to buff, even with my "wax buffer" (the kind I told you not to buy). A year later, I was dreading using it. But after doing the polishing the right way, I was able to wax totally by hand. I just wiped it on, let it dry to a slight haze, and wiped off with a microfiber cloth. Doing the polishing right made the waxing an easy task.</li><li>Be sure to work in the shade. Depending on how your boat is oriented vs. the sun, you may have to do one side of the boat in the morning, the other side in the afternoon.</li><li>I'd recommend that you touch up any bottom paint before waxing, since runoff from the wax and polish might cause adhesion problems. Allow a week or so for the paint to dry, and then gently mask over the paint before polishing, since buffing on the paint might make a mess on your boot stripe.</li></ul>
This job is not easy. It took me two consecutive ~3-hour sessions to do it, and my arms were a little sore the next morning. But it was totally worth it to me. I'll do a full polish in even number years, and a simple clean/wax in odd number years. I'm due for the full polish this year, just waiting for the weather to break.

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/26/2014 18:54:29

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 04/05/2014 : 21:09:33

FYI, I polished the aft 2/3 of the port side of my hull today. It went quickly, taking about one hour. (I got a very late start at 6:30 pm.) I expect that the rest of the hull below the rub rail will take another 3 hours - 2 hours for the rest of port side and starboard side, and an hour for the transom, which is intricate with all the things to maneuver around (ladder, catbird seat stanchions, etc.). Then another hour or two to hand wax. I may wait until after splash to do the cabin sides and front windows, since those can be reached from the cabin top.

This time took less time than before because in 2 years there has been less oxidation build up than before. Previously, I had to wet sand the boot stripe to restore its deep blue color. This time the one-step polish (Presta Ultra Cutting Cream) brought back its color quickly.

However, it is hard work, and your arms do get a workout trying to prevent the buffer from walking itself all over the place. I'm not sure I would be able to do it when I'm 71. But an ex-military 70-year-old may be in better shape than me at 55.

You do learn a few tricks, like orienting the wheel so its motion pushes the polisher in an upward direction, which counteracts its weight. You also need to make sure to attach the buffing wheel so it's balanced, and stop the polisher when it starts to rev up so it can cool down.

You don't realize how much cleaner the boat looks with a proper polish. The uneven color caused by water stains, yellowing wax, and general grime never fully comes out until you polish. It is really worth the trouble once every couple of years.

Edited by - TakeFive on 04/12/2014 19:43:17

britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/12/2014 : 05:25:11

Following up on prep for the buff-n-polish.
Now the proud owner of a Makita buffer.
Spent over $150 on pads and polishes.
Trying to follow the pro on sailnet for the equipment, not easy finding supplies locally.
Wally world next for micro fiber cloths.

Going conservative and not using compound initially, will see how it goes.

Paul

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 04/12/2014 : 07:05:06

Whether you use PG or wax, where do you stop? I start at the top of the bottom paint line, go up to the rub rail, then hit all the features above that which has a vertical component prior to the track on the deck-hull joint. The cockpit has a rise above the rub rail that I hit. But I don't PG the cabin-top sides however, otherwise I'd also have to do the top of the cabin. Maybe I should, but then would I also do the cockpit bulkheads? The seats? The sole? The inside of the transom?

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 04/12/2014 : 07:43:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Whether you use PG or wax, where do you stop? I start at the top of the bottom paint line, go up to the rub rail, then hit all the features above that which has a vertical component prior to the track on the deck-hull joint. The cockpit has a rise above the rub rail that I hit. But I don't PG the cabin-top sides however, otherwise I'd also have to do the top of the cabin. Maybe I should, but then would I also do the cockpit bulkheads? The seats? The sole? The inside of the transom?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Do not apply Polyglow to surfaces that you would walk or sit on. The finish is not hard enough for under-foot wear, and dirt will get ground in.

I finished polishing my hull yesterday (total time, about 4 hours), and was able to do Fleet wax #885 of the entire hull (up to the rub rail) in one hour. With correct surface prep to remove oxidation and shine the hull, the Fleet wax is a simple wipe-on, wipe-off procedure.

Edited by - TakeFive on 04/12/2014 17:16:03

britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/12/2014 : 19:22:17

My biggest issue so far is the wind! I pull the sides of the Tarp out to hooks on the fence and house to create a tent that provides shade. But the wind today was way up there and I was in fear of the tarp getting torn!

So JD is back under tarp this evening fully secured.

Early start in the morning.

Paul

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