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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Bad electrical contact - festoon bulb

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bigbeartr57
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/01/2015 : 09:57:54

I noticed the mast light bulb was burnt out, and decided it was a good time to replace it with LED. It is a festoon type with concave ends. I replaced the bulb and it works...sometimes. It doesn't seem to be getting a good enough electrical connection. I cleaned the hell out of the contacts, but unless the bulb is in the perfect position, it won't stay on, and it doesn't like to stay in the right position. I've tried bending the connections so it fits straighter and tighter, but it still isn't getting the right contact. Any recommendations? Maybe some kind of conductive grease?

"Old Yeller"
1978 Catalina 25 FK
Corpus Christi, TX

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2015 : 11:25:41

Are you asking about the anchor light or the steaming light on the front of the mast?

When I replaced my anchor bulb I used the DrLED bulb. In my case, I had to frequently lower the mast and was concerned that the movement might dislodge the bulb. The solution I came up with was to wrap a nylon zip tie around the contacts and then tighten them down to the bulb.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3994 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2015 : 12:51:14

If its the Aqua Signal 25 original housing then you have a legitimate complaint. Just a lousy design. Have you checked the screws that hold the copper contacts and the wire connections? Dielectric grease might help on the contacts also. Honestly If the mast is down I would just replace the housing with a better designed one.

quote:
The solution I came up with was to wrap a nylon zip tie around the contacts and then tighten them down to the bulb.

Thats worth a try. Small zip tie tightened just enough around the upper and lower contact to induce a little more pressure on the bulb. I remember that someone on the forum said that they soldered the bulb in. Don't know if it worked or not.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/01/2015 13:05:59

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5239 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2015 : 15:02:22

The chain is weakest at its weakest link. The problem could be in the cabin switch, the fuse, the wire leading to the deck plug fitting, the power pin in the fitting, the cable in the mast, the connection in the lug or the light fixture. You've got the same issues getting back through the negative leads. The break could be anywhere along the line.
That said, the two highest likelihood and problematic locations are the deck fitting and the fixture. I'd begin by checking the switch, then the deck fitting and only then the fixture. Intermittent connections are also the trickiest to troubleshoot.
Or you could swap out the fixture.
That's my two cents.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2015 : 16:36:58

My bow light started doing the exact same thing after I installed a DrLED bulb. If I bump the the pulpit it will come on for a second or two and then go out. Occasionally it will stay on for a few minutes. I haven't been out at night in a couple of years so it hasn't been a big deal but I'll try the zip tie to see if that helps. When it works it's very bright!

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2015 : 15:44:09

quote:
Originally posted by bigbeartr57

I noticed the mast light bulb was burnt out, and decided it was a good time to replace it with LED. It is a festoon type with concave ends. I replaced the bulb and it works...sometimes. It doesn't seem to be getting a good enough electrical connection. I cleaned the hell out of the contacts, but unless the bulb is in the perfect position, it won't stay on, and it doesn't like to stay in the right position. I've tried bending the connections so it fits straighter and tighter, but it still isn't getting the right contact. Any recommendations? Maybe some kind of conductive grease?

I had the same problem. I tried cleaning with various chemicals without success. I resorted to lightly sanding the contacts and then cleaning off the dust. That worked.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2270 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2015 : 18:00:52

quote:
Originally posted by bigbeartr57

I noticed the mast light bulb was burnt out, and decided it was a good time to replace it with LED. It is a festoon type with concave ends...

quote:
Originally posted by islander

If its the Aqua Signal 25 original housing then you have a legitimate complaint. Just a lousy design...

The original housing requiring dimpled ends on the bulb is a lousy design. It's gotten even worse since the incandescent replacement bulbs no longer come with an appropriately shaped dimple, so it does not stay in the fixture well at all. However, Aqua Signal has changed the design to require a pointed-end bulb, and that seems to be significantly more secure, whether using incandescent or LED bulb.

I agree that, overall, the "Z-shape" copper strip is a pretty poor design. However, it does provide for good 360-degree lighting without making any shadow. The zip tie idea might help alleviate the lack of compression on the bulb, but it may create a shadow that prevents 360 degree viewing.

quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

[quote]Originally posted by bigbeartr57

...I replaced the bulb and it works...sometimes. It doesn't seem to be getting a good enough electrical connection. I cleaned the hell out of the contacts, but unless the bulb is in the perfect position, it won't stay on, and it doesn't like to stay in the right position. I've tried bending the connections so it fits straighter and tighter, but it still isn't getting the right contact. Any recommendations? Maybe some kind of conductive grease?

If you cleaned the contacts, than adding a very small amount of conductive grease could help prevent corrosion and maintain the continuity. I use Noalox.

Because my anchor light was severely crazed, I replaced it with a new version of the same Aqua Signal 25 fixture. Putting the pointed-end adapters on the LED bulb did seem to provide a more secure connection to the holes in the metal strip. So you might consider doing this also, if you have the pointed-end adapters for our LED bulb.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/08/2015 18:03:05

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5239 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2015 : 22:42:00

Was checking my red/green nav light yesterday and noticed it's an aqua signal with an incandescent light. I have a LED in the stern light and I recall I bought a LED for the bow, but when I put it in, the red looked funny and the green looked too blue. I thought that using the plastic filters for red/green would confuse other boaters due to the colors so I re-replaced the LED with an original incandescent. So now I'd better keep my eye out for some more bulbs since I only have two spares...
Or I could spring for a dual LED red/green navigation fixture.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Lee Panza
Captain

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465 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2015 : 10:38:00

Jerrid: you asked about using conductive grease, and Rick S. mentioned one of the leading brands, Noalox. I've been using Gardner Bender Ox Gard for years and I've been quite pleased with the results. I put it (very sparingly) on just about every electrical connection I assemble: ring terminals on screws, pin connectors, even before inserting wires into the sleeves of heat-shrink terminals. And, of course, the basically crude connections between lamps and spring-connectors like the typical light fixtures.

When I've had to 'tune-up' existing connections that were already partially corroded, I've mechanically removed the corrosion first - generally by sanding - but by itself that action actually speeds up the return of corrosion by creating many fine scratches between the ridges of metal-to-metal contact. The conductive grease fills-in those scratches. It also provides a lot greater path of conductivity by bridging the gaps around and between the small contact patches (on a microscopic level the two surfaces are by no means flat and fully in contact).

Be careful with conductive grease, however, especially on higher temperature locations like around lamps. You don't want it to flow between opposing contacts and create a short circuit. In practice that's generally not an issue, as long as the amount of grease is quite small. It takes very little to do the job: the one-ounce tube of Ox Gard I bought years ago is still going strong.

For a level of redundancy (important in the marine environment when your safety can rely on your equipment) I sometimes apply a layer of dielectric grease around the contact after it's been assembled with conductive grease. The dielectric grease (especially a high-temperature product such as is sold for automotive engine wiring) helps contain the conductive grease where it belongs, and it further prevents corrosion on the metal around the actual point of contact. This may seem anal to some, but the few minutes of extra care one time when a contact is assembled can prevent problems for the life of the component. I believe if my boat was ever to sink and be salvaged (Neptune, I hope you don't read this!) I'm confident that the electrical system would still be functional (except for the replaceable components).

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Edited by - Lee Panza on 05/30/2015 10:40:38

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2015 : 10:53:01

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Was checking my red/green nav light yesterday and noticed it's an aqua signal with an incandescent light. I have a LED in the stern light and I recall I bought a LED for the bow, but when I put it in, the red looked funny and the green looked too blue. I thought that using the plastic filters for red/green would confuse other boaters due to the colors so I re-replaced the LED with an original incandescent. So now I'd better keep my eye out for some more bulbs since I only have two spares...
Or I could spring for a dual LED red/green navigation fixture.

I have a Dr. LED red/green LED in my Aqua Signal 25 fixture and the colors look normal but much brighter than the incandescent bulb it replaces.

The only issue I have is keeping it working due to bad contact as others have mentioned. I think the tie-wrap idea above will cure that problem.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 05/30/2015 10:53:39

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5239 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2015 : 13:49:18

Gary,
Do you have a red/green fixture (with separate red and green LEDs) or a single plastic fixture with a red/green LED in it. Please post the model #, because if all I need do is replace the bulb, I'm in.
Edit: if it's a festoon bulb, what prevents the bulb from rotating within the fixture, pointing the red and green the wrong way?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 05/30/2015 14:12:20

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2015 : 14:57:23

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Gary,
Do you have a red/green fixture (with separate red and green LEDs) or a single plastic fixture with a red/green LED in it. Please post the model #, because if all I need do is replace the bulb, I'm in.
Edit: if it's a festoon bulb, what prevents the bulb from rotating within the fixture, pointing the red and green the wrong way?

This is the fixture:
-- >>http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNTM2/z/qxgAAOxyRhBS4Zb4/$_57.JPG

Don't remember for sure but I believe the bulb is big enough that it could only rotate a few degrees. All I know is it works.

I believe the bulb I got is the 8001634 in the Aqua Signal box in the top section of this chart -- >> http://www.doctorled.com/crossref.htm

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 05/30/2015 15:00:50

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2015 : 15:00:05

I know your question was to GaryB, but here is a photo of a green and red DrLED bulb in a green and red fixture. IIRC, the contacts on the bulb are offset, making it difficult for the bulb to rotate.

My difficulties installing the bulb are here:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=22721

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2015 : 15:02:05

quote:
Originally posted by Davy J

I know your question was to GaryB, but here is a photo of a green and red DrLED bulb in a green and red fixture. IIRC, the contacts on the bulb are offset, making it difficult for the bulb to rotate.

My difficulties installing the bulb are here:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=22721

That's it!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5239 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2015 : 17:12:02

Right - that's similar to the LED bulb I have except that instead of having multiple LEDs mounted on the PCBs, mine is a single LED shooting up towards a cone-shaped mirror (Dr. LED polarstar) to provide a 360� beam. Apparently, the color temperature of my LED is more towards the blue-ish end of the spectrum (6500K) while the pictured one is closer to the yellow end of the spectrum, tungsten or 2700K. As a result, my green side looks more blue/green or cyan, while the red appears dim. This tends to confuse other boaters.
I can switch my bow and stern lights, but the design of the polarstar with a single LED creates a lot of RF hash on my FM and presumably my VHF.
I know WM is having a sale and may have a better discount on the right LED bulb.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 05/30/2015 17:14:06

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3994 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2015 : 14:00:59

quote:
my green side looks more blue/green or cyan, while the red appears dim. This tends to confuse other boaters.

That's because you are putting a white LED behind the colored lenses and the results are weird colors as you you found out. There aren't really any white LEDs but to make a white LED they use a blue led covered in a yellow Phosphor, Blue and yellow creates white to our eyes but your green and red lens is allowing the blue and yellow to pass through it creating the mix of colors. You need red and green LEDs behind the bi- color lens.https://www.doctorled.com/store/nav-LED-bulb/LED-nav-bow-bulb/Bi-Color-Polar-Star-25

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

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