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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

What if you don't have a sling available

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yachtsea
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/18/2017 : 08:34:57

Hi,

Our marina and club is cozy but we do not have service facilities for at least 100 miles. My 1986 25 SK does not lend well to service on the trailer. In fact, I'm not sure the keel ever really leaves the trailer's keel bed. I can get a little slack in the cable but I'm starting to think the boat is resting on the keel more than it should. Maybe I'll adjust the bunks upward a bit next spring when we splash her in.

I am wondering if others, who do not have easy access to service shops or do not like paying labor have found a good alternative. Some searching on the WWW makes for good stories but nothing I would ever try i.e. saw one 22 hanging from a large tree branch with slings, another used blocks, jacks, and about 12 hours to get the trailer away, and then I thought I have a couple crane outfits nearby.

I'm reading the SKs should not bear any weight and that jacks are only for stabilization, not bear the weight which would be focused at each jack and hull is not designed for that. Those statements alone make sense to me but does that mean these boats never go on jacks?

Finally, if I were to use a marina, and trust them to avoid jacks, or resting on the extended (or retracted) keel, do I need to follow up to make sure they do not do that or is that commonplace, to paint the bottom while hoisted? I called but they are closed and will not answer questions until spring.

I was thinking, as I walked the grounds of our yacht club yesterday, it appears these boats are not getting painted every year which is likely due to the inconvenience.

Thanks,

Carl

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5852 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2017 : 11:48:29

When sailboats, including C25s, are stored on the hard, they are commonly supported by 4-6 jackstands, with a prop at the bow, just to support it and prevent it from sagging. The jackstands should be placed where there is a bulkhead or furniture inside to add strength. One can be placed at the forward bulkhead and one at the galley. Once the boat is in place on jackstands, then the keel should be lowered onto a block of wood that is lying on the ground, which will support the weight of the keel. That will reduce the load on the hull.

Tell us what work you want to do on your boat and people will offer suggestions on how to do it. The main question is, do you just need the boat lifted off the trailer bunks enough to paint under them, or do you need the boat completely off the trailer?

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

yachtsea
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2017 : 12:45:48

Hi Steve, thanks for the timely response and input. The goal is to support the boat on the hard for painting the bottom, including the keel which would need to drop some and just the same, raise it so I can get the bottom of the keel. The yard is not paved by the way. I would also like to be able to at least inspect, if not service the keel lowering components. My concern stems from if I do that service on the trailer, there is such little relief that I may feel like I correctly swapped out the winch and wound the cable correctly and little to no slippage will occur next time keel weight is applied. But at 1900lbs., I don't think I can rely on even the best looking wraps around the drum.

I'm partly going off my Capri 16 and other many-year owners who said that 60%, far and away the most popular number, of the entire weight of the boat rests on the keel (winged in this case on the 16) when trailered. If you can somewhat apply to 25, 100% of the weight is on the bunks until you lower the keel which is approximately 40% and even then, only about 50% of that 40% is let off the bunks (still connected at the pivot pin).

In summary:
What do people do in practice to safely get their boats paintable when only a bunked trailer exists (can't screw down a pad, replace, and move on)?
How do you paint the bottom of a keel on said trailer?
Should I adjust my trailer bunks to take on more of the load since currently, when the boat is put on the trailer, the trailer winch feels like it is straining to get the boat up to the trailer winch mast (deep water positions boat bow incorrectly).
Should there be air space from a retracted keel to the keel bed before lowering the keel when trailered?

So much for a summary but with that kind of mass, I want to be sure.

Thanks,

Carl

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

803 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2017 : 13:59:59

make sure your pads are high enough when you load up the boat that you can lower them . do them one ata time and it should be fine. On my wing keel ( i know, a little different, but ill get to that) I lowered them enough to undo the bolt holding them on. then i could paint that spot and move on to the next when it dried. On two of the pads i was a little unsure because i could not get them down enough to get the pads off. ( didnt follow my own advice) no problem... I just grabbed two stands from the other end of the boatyard and cranked up on the boat to take enough weight off the pads. So if you are worried about supporting the boat with one pad removed, get a boat stand or two . put them next to the pad you are removing, and everything is safe. If you dont have any, you can order them online. I see them in craigslist occasionally.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

yachtsea
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2017 : 14:25:11

Hi, I've witnessed that on some trailers in the lot but they have pads/jacks whereas mine is bunks. I prefer this for trailering and after reading the manual posted on this site, Catalina actually does not support launching your boat from pad/jack-style trailer, that's simply designed for transport to a lift. I watched a recovery this post season of a fixed keel Catalina 25 and I concur.

So I think I can take this in a new direction. Do you think that with my bunk-style (think the pictures illustrate that in my OP) trailer, that I could get a bunch of boatstands and with some patience, safely raise the entire boat's 6600 lbs off this style trailer, maybe a foot by visiting each jack with a turn or two or three until I achieved desired height? We don't have boatstands/jacks anywhere around so I would need to locate some. Beyond, being a very small non-profit, I would hate to have the marina purchase them and then learn one failed resulting in not only injury damage to a member/boat, but the liability will likely prohibit in the first place.

let's call this one theoretical. Do you think you could lift a boat off a trailer only using rotational screw power? I think the force is there, I'm more concerned about the hull's resilience to focusing that contact.

Thanks,

Carl

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5239 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2017 : 15:41:21

That is how they raise houses, by putting a bunch of jacks underneath then raising each one a little bit at a time. I would speak with the yard boss before doing anything like this, since the yard may have insurance limitations or prohibited owner activities. If approved, I'd get seven jack stands - three pairs chained together to place under the bulkheads and opposite the keel and a bow jack stand to raise and support the bow. The chains are in place to prevent the jackstands slipping out of the bottom.
Raise up the boat far enough to get a roller or brush underneath. Then back off each jackstand one at a time and paint. You could get another jackstand that you'd place nearby the one you drop.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2017 : 18:16:30

Put boat stands under boat. Deflate tires. Paint bottom. Inflate tires. Remove stands. Paint the spots where the stands were.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2017 : 07:30:30

What an idea! What a nice forum we have!!!

p.s., Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Edited by - JohnP on 12/19/2017 07:31:40

yachtsea
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2017 : 07:51:21

Thanks all. I'll contact the Buildings and Grounds chair...oh wait, I got voted in this year. I approve.

yachtsea
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2017 : 11:45:35

I love this solution but I think it is optimistic to guess they could accommodate the height needed to service the keel. I would also likely be getting two, four-node systems which is likely less than ideal cost-wise. Cool idea though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJuwY6iaCqE

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

803 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2017 : 12:29:25

this is how i removed the bunks from my swing keel when i had one. I used harbor freight bottle jacks. once I lifted it about 2 inches, i had room to unbolt the bunk.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2017 : 19:37:19

Lower the nose of the trailer and place aft jackstands, jack up the bow of the trailer and place forward jackstands. lower the trailer nose to level Leave the keel cable slack while doing it so much of the weight stays on the trailer. You don't need a bow stand because it won't be up long enough for sag to be an issue. When the paint is dry, raise the bunks 4 inches and reverse the process. You will now have a supported boat with access to keel lifting and pivot hardware in the future.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2017 : 10:02:17

Carl,

Something that came to mind while reading this thread is about the keel lifting cable. I don't know if you are in salt or fresh water, as they have different duty cycles - but the keel lifting cable does need to be regularly replaced. Every 2 years for salt water, not sure about fresh.

If the keel is kept up ion the trunk when on the trailer, how are you able to change the connection of the cable to the keel?

Just wondering...

Jerry

yachtsea
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2017 : 10:32:37

Hi Jerry,

I picked up this boat in Pella, IA (member here actually) and before that, she was in St. Louis. I'm in WI on a 6000 acre lake so no salt here. He said he installed the CD keel maintenance kit which includes the cable, the turning ball, and the eye bolt. He had access to a sling and shop since he used to work there part time. While he checked the keel for "excessive play" and didn't find any, he did not lower the forward end of the keel to inspect the pivot pin which I have heard is the worst thing to go but the least maintained and therefore, they overengineer them. Not to say that it shouldn't be inspected/replaced at scheduled internvals depending on environment and use including salt, brackish, fresh, length of season, abuse from trailering, grounding; and finally, I moor her in a protected bay from the largest fetch across the lake so a little less wave action but still, it needs to be done.

Back to your inquiry, I'm working off the his assurance that the kit was indeed installed and we are still chatting back and forth (even after the check cleared) so I'm pretty confident there. I have a new winch to install from CD since the current one (think original) will not predictably hold and has released on me, thankfully with only a single rotation on it at the time. To finish out the season, I would crank it up and secure the winch handle (only when hauling out, I moor with keel down and sail with keel down, I'll learn)...winch handle secured to the ladderwell in the companionway where the winch is mounted.

I just got an email from GoHoist.com and at 4550, I think their 6000lbs Tall Boy would suffice. Let me know what you think of that? Should be able to get enough clearance once trailer leaves. I suspect I would need to lower it onto stands but I asked if the hoist was designed to support during maintenance or just to get it off one support system and onto another. They are no less than 1500 dollars; alas, if I have to trailer her down 100 miles and get her in a sling for a couple hours or probably more so I can paint every other year and inspect her keel, that could have an ROI in one or two rotations depending on what was needed.

Thanks for your interest, I welcome your commentary.

Carl

JB
Navigator

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USA
110 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2017 : 11:38:54

Other than painting, obviously, can swing keel maintenance be performed in the water?

1988 C25 Wing Keel Std Rig Tohatsu 9.9 Tiller Steering and 2003 C250 Wing Keel Std Rig Inboard Diesel Wheel Steering

Edited by - JB on 12/20/2017 11:39:39

yachtsea
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2017 : 13:46:09

Hi JB,

I'm on the fence of whether to do the keel winch swap on the trailer or in the water. The pro of doing it afloat is that I can fully extend the keel until the least amount of cable is in the cabin thus reducing potential for twist, kink, and most of all, unknown failure upon launch. On the trailer, obvious advantages come with working in the yard including visibility if I drop the cable through the hull. I would hope I would take enough precautions to not allow that to happen but I'm not looking forward to 10 or more drumfulls of cable in a relatively confined workspace. Most of all, I do not like MOTs (moments of truth) such as the first launch with a retracted keel and then once that hopefully-tightened cable on drum takes on the responsibility of the 1900lbs keel off the trailer, it holds. If not, the result would likely be devastating to the keel and hull and possibly the trailer and ramp. I don't have the clearance on my trailer to test although several members in this thread alone offered ways to increase that distance.

Catalina25 SK
Carl

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