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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

DC wiring panel

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Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/02/2004 : 20:37:40

Does anyone know what Catalina was thinking when they put together the DC panel on the 250? Mine had two breakers in it; one labeled 20 Amps, which was hooked to the cabin lights, running lights and the lights on the mast. The second breaker wasn’t labeled and was hooked to the three accessory switches. I found it in series with the first 20 Amp breaker and I originally thought it would be a smaller breaker. Here is were it got interesting. The second breaker is also a 20 Amp breaker. What could be its purpose? If any of the lights are on it will never pop; the first breaker will always go first. If there are no lights on then there is a 50 50 chance as to which one will go. The second thought is what are they protecting? At 20 amps they are to big to protect the down stream wire which is 16 and 18 gauge so the only wire they are sized for is for the 12 gauge input wire from the battery to the panel. It will pop if you have a dead short but you will fry the wire if you have any overload. My only guess is they thought it looked good.
The next thing I notice was a black wire going to a switch and a green wire hooked to the negative buss strip? ABYC standard is black is always the negative wire. Why use the green when there is a black wire in the four-conductor harness? As it turns out they used the black wire to feed the deck light on the mast? I also noted that whoever wired the mast didn’t use the same color code as the person who wired the boat. The bow and the anchor lights change color at the deck plug?
Well what I originally opened this can of worms for was to add a 12 Amp and a 5 Amp breaker for the autopilot and the gauges.
At this point it looks like the quick fix is to run a larger lead in wires from the battery, take out the second 20 Amp breaker and replace it with something smaller and add the two breakers I need in parallel. What really needs to be done is to add a second DC breaker panel. If I run a #6 up to the panel there are fuse links at the battery for both the + and the – which will protect the input wire and then I just need to protect the output wires with the correct size breaker.
How has everyone else dealt with this panel? Where have you put any new breakers?
Below is how I found my boat wired.

Keith
Southern California
250wb Hull #8

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2004 : 22:14:27

Keith: Have you asked Catalina for a wiring diagram? I take it the wiring diagram you posted is your own drawing? My boat is a 2004 C250WK and the battery is located under the v-berth. I haven't gotten into the wiring yet but imagine I will when I get to the point of installing a second battery, battery combiner, solar panel, etc...I may have the opportunity to talk with Catalina sometime this month and I guess I will ask for some advice and opinions from them regarding the electrical system and adding a second battery...hopefully they will have some advice or counsel in that regard, or maybe even a wiring diagram for that type of installation...hope you get it worked out.

Dan #727

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2004 : 11:53:07

Keith, I must admit that I have not looked at the power panel that closely since I have not started the electrical mods on my new boat. I have just done the basics that allowed for battery charging, motor starting and nav instrument/radio power. I put inline fuses on each instrument as recommended by the manufacture and one on the motor staring/charging system. I have noted that the battery to panel wire is 10 guage and all other wiring is 14 gauge.
I printed out your diagram to study, but alas it is to small for my tired old eyes to read so I will have to get a big magnifier before I can comment. I will also try and get out and take a closer look at my panel, if the rain ever stops. What year model is your boat?

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2004 : 14:15:43

Keith, According to your drawing, the breakers are wired in parallel not series... I wouldn't sweat the color of the short wire going from the breaker to the switch bus. Other areas however can get confusing if the colors are not observed correctly and I understand your concern.

My greatest concern about Catalina's wiring plan was that they did not fuse the wiring harness at the battery, at least it wasn't on my boat. I reccomend all owners to check and insure that there is a fuse very near the battery. If not, then one can be added quite easily.

As far as the breaker size being wrong for the instruments... I agree with Jerry, each DC device should be fused seperately at the device so the breaker then only serves the trunk line (several devices).

Some have chosen to upgrade the panel to have more switch capability. I have added an auto pilot, sterio, gps/sounder, blaster pump, VHF, and cabin fan and done so with the original panel. It does require doubling or tripling up some switches. Thinking some of them through, may yield a plan that works.

For example, the blaster pump needs to be swithced and I doubled it with the stove igniter as neither needs to be left on and they will coexist well together. Instruments, vhf, autopilot are all on one switch.

Give it some thought, you may find a way to make the original work.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 05/03/2004 14:21:54

nalderson
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2004 : 16:04:58

Arlyn,

A very naive question from a novice.....How did you go about adding instruments to the same switch. Did you use some sort of bus? I am encountering this same problem on my boat as I begin to add upgrades in instrumentation.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2004 : 16:33:09

Nathan,

Its been several years since I was into the power panel...but I think it used spade / lugs on the switches. If so, gang spades are available at auto parts stores.

Edited by - on

BJ Wagner
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2004 : 19:35:45

I used each of the first two accessory switch to power fused buss panels. One of the panels is located behind the cover that the light over the galley is attached to and the other is behind an access port I installed behind where the cooler is located. These give me a means to fuse the individual instruments, stereo, etc. as needed with over all contol of the individual busses via the switches.

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Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2004 : 21:52:28

Here is a bigger print of the wiring diagram I cut it in half so it would come in bigger. As you can see now the breakers are in series not parallel. The feed for the second breaker is from the output of the first. According to the Catalina wiring diagram the feed from the battery should be a #10 and all else #14’s but that is not what I found on my boat. The feed is a #12 and the cabin lights and running lights are #16 and the four-conductor harness to the mast is #18’s.
The boat is a 1995 250 wb with the battery behind the aft berth.
With out a panel upgrade I don’t see how you added too many items. If you turned all the lights on which are on the boat you will be drawing about 10 amps. (6 10watt cabin lights 2 10 watt mast lights 1 20watt deck light and 2 10watt running lights.) My vhf radio calls for a 7amp and the auto pilot a 12amp the gauges want a 5amp. Are we over 20amps yet? And now to add a stereo blaster pump gps and cabin fans? The point here is you can easily overload the original panel. You will probably never turn on all of the lights but if you are motoring at night with the autopilot and the vhf, GPS and gauges on and lets say 2-3 cabin lights you will be very close to or over 20 Amps. I will be adding a second panel and a larger feed. I have already found a panel with six switches and six breakers for $38 all wired up. Then I won’t worry about which item I turn on.

Edited by - on

BJ Wagner
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2004 : 00:09:02

I failed to include in my earlier posting that I had upgraded the feed from the the batteries to the panel and installed maxi fuses at each of the batteries to protect the entire system. I'm not sure what the panel is like in other years, but in my 98 the feed on the panels is split and is not wired in series.

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2004 : 21:33:45

Keith, I finally took my panel out to check and yes mine is wired in series also. I will fix that problem tomorrow when I hook up the electrical for my washdown pump. One thing to remember is do not add the fuse size as part of the total amp usage. Recommended fuse sizes for equipment are usually 1.5 x the amp draw of the piece of equipment. For instance my washdown pump recommended fuse is 15 amps even though the amp draw on the side of the motor reads 10 amps. I have yet to sit down and make a total possible amp usuage chart, but will need to do that before I decide the size, in amp hours, and how I want to hook up the second battery.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2004 : 22:00:16

I see now that the larger drawing does show that they are in series. The deal must be that the wire to the panel is only capable of the 10 amps.

One approach would be to run another wire to the panel from the battery, and wire it to the second breaker. Again, fuse it at the battery.

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2004 : 00:21:24

If the wire from the battery is 10 guage then it will carry 30 amps with a 20% buffer any guage less would of course be less. I was thinking about upgrading my battery to panel wire to eight guage which is design to carry 50 amps plus buffer and then moving the wire to the lower breaker from the HOT OUT side the upper to the HOT IN side of the upper. This would then put them in parallel. I know breakers to not have a specific out and in labled but once wired they in effect do.

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