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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/18/2011 : 07:04:12

Well, we are in the market for a tow vehicle. Just bought a fifth wheel (Arctic Fox 24-5N, will post photos later) and will need a 3/4 ton or 1 ton pickup for it and the boat. We will try to find a nice used one. So I would be appreciative of any advice and experience you can share. In particular:

Diesel vs. gas
2WD vs. 4WD
Automatic vs. manual tranny
Makes and models you like

And anything else you can advise. Thanks!

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 03/18/2011 07:05:18

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 07:52:56

I had a dream a few years ago to sail my C25 in the 2006 Nationals in Cleaveland. I purchased a new GMC 2500 HD 4 wheel drive, with 6.0 liter engine, to haul the boat. A month later gas prices hit $4.00 + per gallon. At 8-10 mpg the dream died. Obviously gas prices will effect long-hauling your 5th wheeler. I have always felt that RVer's over-buy their trucks and really only need an appropriately sized and equipped two wheel drive truck.

On the other hand, if you are planning to haul your boat to other than your local ramp you may need a 4 wheel drive to pull your boat up steep, slippery ramps, but not necessarily to haul over long distances. With a tongue extension or strap system on your boat trailer you may be able to negotiate most ramps with a two wheel drive vehicle.

So, in the interest of economy, a 3/4 ton 2-wheel drive with appropriate towing package, V-8 gas engine would save you money at initial purchase and in gas prices (diesel is always more expensive than gas). An automatic would be best to save on clutch repairs, plus most 2006 and newer models have a push-button towing gear that saves gas on hilly terrain - mine does anyway.

I like my GMC but it is a "Work Truck" model and rides like a tank. A non-HD model in any make would probably have a cushier ride for long distance driving. My personal feeling is that amongst all trucks, technology is basically the same. So whether you buy a Ford, Chev, GMC, or a Japanese full-size pickup, you need to like how it looks, feels on the road, is appropriately equipped for ong distance hauling, and be economical to run.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 17:05:09

I would do a search on this one . . . you'll read the same disagreements there as you would/will here.

I read specs . . .

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 19:18:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 I would do a search on this one . . . you'll read the same disagreements there as you would/will here.

I read specs . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, you're probably right but a good forum discussion on tow vehicles is fun.

I'm into specs too, doing the research.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 03/18/2011 19:19:45

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 19:22:55

I think you should get a yugo. I hear they can do anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTKZgEW8pM&feature=related

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 20:23:48

If your main use for this truck is towing, you can't go wrong with diesel. It will last as long as you and i bet mileage while towing your yacht (land or sea) will be approx double what it would be with gas, besides a very solid feel with LOTS more torque.
I won't buy one without 4wd because of the extra weight on the front end and its tendency to sink into soft ground(voice of experience-sand and mud). (2 miles of dirt road to the nearest pavement at my house.) BTW I like blue ovals! Current diesel prices keep mine in the barn except when I need it, but I get about 12 or 13 mpg towing the C25, which makes it cheaper than gas.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 21:06:57

I think we need to know more about how you plan to use this behemoth... What distances? What terrains? How often? Who and what gear in the vehicle? What use will you put it to otherwise?

Data--we need data!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 04:04:47

Dodge Ram 2500 HD 4WD Cummins Turbo Diesel
"ding"...you are free to move about the country.

Personally, I went with the Laramie Edition, leather heated seats, 7-speaker stereo, adjustable pedals, power sliding rear window, power locks, seats, windows, exhaust brake...... if you're going to drive around in a truck, it might as well be a luxurious truck.

Edited by - Davy J on 03/19/2011 04:39:06

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 05:46:11

I used to own a travel trailer...30' and 7500#. Tongue pull....had an F350 Powersmoke to pull it.

Find an RV forum and ask this question....talk about light a fire.....

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 06:03:51

I just looked up the Artic Fox model you referenced above. Dry weight is 7,120 lbs, gross weight is 10,000. I'll second Davy J, get the Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel, or Chevy/Ford equivalent, depending on which brand dealer is most convenient to you. I believe that the Cummins is considered the best pickup diesel powerplant. Regardless of make, look for one that is 4-5 years old, though, unless you recently won the lottery! New ones are going to run $45-55K. If you plan to do a lot of traveling with the RV, I would also look at a 350/3500 series dually.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 08:11:20

Randy, you sly dog, you realized that the forum has been quiet on this subject for a while and it's getting late in the winter so why not stir up a little tow-vehicle muck.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 08:30:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I'm into specs too, doing the research.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You might keep testosterone levels in mind also!

Edited by - OJ on 03/19/2011 08:31:39

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 08:58:20

OK, now we're getting going.

The Arctic Fox 5er has a gross max weight of 10,000lbs fully loaded (7120 dry, 2880 carrying capacity). We intend to do short trips around Oregon for the next two years until I retire. Then we'll expand out to the western US/Canada and, on occasion, cross-country. There are mountains out here, even to move around in Oregon, so the vehicle has to have some oomph to it. Will be Pat and I plus the gear. Will be doing year-round camping, the trailer is equipped for cold weather.

As a kid my family traveled extensively by RV throughout the US and Canada (10 week trips, both parents were teachers). I've seen a lot of this great country and our great neighbor to the north. Pat has not so our intention is to travel as one of our main retirement activities. We are very close to our daughter (only child) and my mom lives in town so we wouldn't be gone for more that 4-6 weeks at a time I suspect. Of course we also want to be able to tow the boat up into the San Juans, British Columbia and other NW cruising venues, so the truck will help with that too (the Yukon simply couldn't handle it).

We will only use the truck for towing, no around town use. We have a Camry Hybrid for all other driving. I know we are going to pay a lot for gas but we're prepared to do that to experience this traveling. We take care of our vehicles and keep them a long time. Volvo sold with 250k miles after 20 years, 1999 Yukon has 220k and still going, etc. I anticipate keeping this truck for many years.

Leaning to a crewcab, short bed, diesel. I'm finding late model (2006-2008) low mileage (20-30k) Dodge 2500 Cummins Turbos for $28/29k. One nice thing about the PNW is that there are lots of trucks!

Thanks for all help.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 03/19/2011 09:02:09

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 09:47:10

Crewcab is good, but you might want a full length bed as well, if they are available. Turning might be a bit more difficult, but the longer wheelbase will aid in towing comfort. Also, at least 2 guys at our marina who tow big boats have a ball mount with a built-in shock absorber. They say it makes a significant difference in reducing the jerking motions.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 09:47:58

For what you've stated as goals, the Dodge with a Cummins diesel sounds like the way to go. Gas engines lose torque with altitude, diesels really don't. At least not that you'd notice. Cummins have fewer parts than their competitors, and that was what I originally wanted to buy. Fewer parts means less to go wrong However we ended up rushed in our purchase and got a 7.3 liter F-250 instead because we couldn't find a Dodge that wasn't beat to crap. The Ford has been reliable, but it's also a money sink. With the price of diesel, I try not to drive it too much, preferring our Jetta TDI with it's 43 MPG or the '76 Mercedes diesel that gets around 25. I just had to have the Ford in for another little repair (leaking fuel around a seal), and those types of repairs never seem to end.

That said, the Ford tows our boat beautifully, like it's not there. The only time I can really feel the boat is when trying to stop, and it's inertia is pushing the truck from behind.

Edited by - delliottg on 03/19/2011 09:51:01

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 14:00:29

My company used to purchase F250's and F350's (a lot) with the diesel engines. Last year we started purchasing these trucks with the V-10 gasoline engine. The company did an in-depth look at the costs and the resale and found that the cost difference could not be recovered when it was time to sell.

Experience over the past year has proven the V-10's get as good as or better fuel mileage as the diesel and will pull almost as well as the diesel.

Edited by - GaryB on 03/19/2011 14:01:53

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 15:00:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 ...you might want a full length bed as well, if they are available. Turning might be a bit more difficult, but the longer wheelbase will aid in towing comfort...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Second that... The longer the wheelbase, the better for towing--particularly for slowing/stopping.

Here we go...

Crosley 4500 turbodiesel

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/19/2011 15:07:46

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 15:23:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Here we go...

Crosley 4500 turbodiesel<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Holy He!!, I said Luxurious, not hideous, Yikes !!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 15:36:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The company did an in-depth look at the costs and the resale and found that the cost difference could not be recovered when it was time to sell.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How long are they keeping the vehicles?

My previous Dodge Ram 2500 was a 1995, I traded it-in on a new 2008, it had 249,000 miles. I am pretty sure I got my money's worth. I can only hope the new one lasts until 2021 !

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 15:50:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Crosley 4500 turbodiesel<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Holy He!!, I said Luxurious, not hideous, Yikes !!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hey--you can't see the interior--it might be leather with dual-zone automatic climate control and 15-speaker surround sound. Now, the tires might need upgrading...

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 16:27:30

I can see the door hinges, on the outside, at least they got their moneys worth, I think....

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 17:02:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 I can see the door hinges, on the outside...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...so if you get locked out, you can un-pin the hinges and get in.

OK, end of hijack... At least we don't have a knock-down, drag-out over whether a Grand Cherokee can safely tow 10,000 lbs.... (...which it caaa.....)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/19/2011 17:06:12

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 17:17:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">OK, end of hijack... At least we don't have a knock-down, drag-out over whether a Grand Cherokee can safely tow 10,000 lbs.... (...which it caaa.....) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I am pretty sure I can tow a Grand Cherokee, upside down, on it's roof, with my Dodge Ram 2500....../hijack.

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 17:38:35

Unless you get a slider fifth wheel hitch, you will eventually turn short enough with your travel trailer to crunch the corner of the cab and a front corner of the trailer. I choose the long bed over the extra complication and expense of the sliding hitch. I also have no complaint with the Ford V10 gas engines powerwise. Cummins is the bomb for diesel, but you have to buy a Dodge truck to get it:(.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 18:36:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The company did an in-depth look at the costs and the resale and found that the cost difference could not be recovered when it was time to sell.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How long are they keeping the vehicles?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We've only been buying the V-10's for the past 8 to 10 months. We normally run our trucks 150k to 200k miles.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 02:34:37

Randy, I still use the super cab 250 with the 460 and long bed. It is a two wheel drive with the automatic with a super sized transmission cooler. Since I can't justify newer this 1991 has sure worked. 10 ply tires, replacement radiator for 139.00, lower license fee and insurance and cruise control has been good for me. I do pull a 10,000 lb trailer used for cars and projects the kids come up with, sand, gravel and trash, it gets weighed at the dump. The truck can really pull and ramp launching it doesn't slip. The departure date for the cruise is 22 June. See you then?

Edited by - on

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