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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

securing tiller

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jmstee
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/26/2019 : 08:39:07

My catalina 25 swings wildly on her mooring to the point where i have destroyed my pendants multiple times. I used to secure the tiller with some line but it was digging into and destroying the wood. I varnished everything this winter and made it all nice again and secured it with line cushioned by a rag which was good for a bit but it eventually slipped and wore away the varnish. Since then i have just let it be free but it sails all over the place and swings like crazy. I was thinking about getting a tiller tamer to help control it but the clutch ones are expensive for that they are and i keep reading that the $30 davis ones break quickly. does anyone have something that they find successful and cheap? would shock cord do less damage than line?

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2019 : 07:24:58

I remove the tiller end of every trip

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2019 : 07:31:29

At the marina I secure my tiller by covering it with the sunbrella cover and wrapping about 10 turns of 1/8" cord around the middle of the tiller that is held in small cam cleats on each coaming. Since waves push the rudder around constantly, I have for the last few years attached both ends of the cord to the same side of the cockpit. The tiller and rudder swing gently back and forth and there is little stress on the gudgeons with this setup.

Bungy cords wrapped around the tiller cover can hold the tiller centered. The more wraps you use the less each turn digs into the varnish, in my opinion.

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2019 : 07:44:37

I recommend covering the tiller with a sunbrella cover. It protects the tiller from delaminating. If the cover has a strip of soft leather sewn around it at the point where the tiller is lashed, the leather will protect the tiller from chafe. I don't recommend bungee for lashing the tiller or for DIY self steering. If your objective is to lash the tiller and prevent it from swinging back and forth, how does it help to use a bungee that stretches? Ordinary line will prevent the tiller from swinging with no appreciable stretch. It's always a good practice to lash the tiller, because allowing it to swing freely wears out the rudder gudgeons and pintles over time.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/27/2019 07:54:04

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2019 : 08:05:55

Also bungee cords don't last long in sunlight. I've also had a Davis tiller tamer for well over 10yrs although I don't use it to secure the tiller when off the boat. I do secure the tiller like JohnP does with the tiller covered then a line wrapped around the covered tiller and secured in the clam cleats on the rear coamings that are also used for the Tiller tamer line.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 08/27/2019 08:07:09

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2019 : 19:27:28

My tiller came with a tiller extension handle thanks to the PO, Dave Stinkpotter. I use the tiller extension handle occasionally when foul weather arises so I can sit on the companionway bridge under the bimini to keep the rain off and steer.
The best part about this tiller extension is the receptacle mounted on the end of the tiller handle. It�s a short stainless steel sleeve that�s mounted vertically with a top and bottom collar.
In that hole I�ve created a cool gizmo. It consists of a 3� bolt with a pan head on the end. I�ve added a large fender washer, then a 7/16� nut, then another fender washer and another nut. These are all tightened together. For the end of the bolt I have a wing nut.
I took the assembly, put it through the sleeve, I tightened the wing nut so now I have a gizmo with two disks and enough space to wrap a piece of line. I tied the end of the line to each of two cleats mounted on the gunwales next to the transom, using a full slip knot to put tension on the rope. I wrap the line once counter rotated around the gizmo for sailing. That�s my tiller tamer.
On the dock I wrap it 3-4 times and snug it up. Keeps the tiller locked in place.
It never moves when it�s wrapped a few times, and if wrapped only once, it slides a little to allow the adjustment of the direction of the tiller.
No line touches the tiller, but it stays in place.
As a tiller tamer, if adjusted right, it will keep the boat on a specific windward course for minutes, tens of minutes... I don�t understand exactly why it works but given a little bit of slack, it must counteract the sum of forces to create a negative feedback loop to keep the boat moving in one direction for awhile.
I replace the line once a year, if needed.
It�s so simple I�ll have to patent it one of these days!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 08/27/2019 19:31:58

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2019 : 15:21:12

I guess I am not clear as to why you are having a problem. Peregrine is on a mooring and swings through all season long.
I do something that many look askance at. I lash the tiller off to one side rather than in the middle and have no ill effects. While on the boat at the mooring it opens up a lot more of the cockpit. But I have been leaving it like that when off the boat for years.
I would ask what knot you are using around the tiller. I am committed to the clove hitch and standard winds around the cleats. The knot holds well and does no damage to the tiller.
As for "self Steering" which I think is a separate topic I do use 1/4" bungee with a loop in the center and loops for the cleats. I agree with Steve it is NOT really "self steering" but allows me to do chores, i.e. raising, lowering, sails, reefing, grabbing a drink for short periods away from the tiller.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

jmstee
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2019 : 16:23:21

I don't know why i am having an issue either but I have destroyed several lines in a short amount of time and the constant movement of the boat came up as a likely source. I used to just tie a thin line to a cleat then several turns around the tiller and across the cockpit to the other cleat. I am going to make a cover then use a real knot on the tiller that will not slip and chafe at it with a thicker softer rope.

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 02:59:28

One way to secure the tiller with just a rope is to attach it to one stern cleat, then take a couple turns around the tiller. make one more loop, twist it around like the locking turn of a cleat hitch, and slip it over the end of the tiller. pull that tight and secure to the other stern cleat. That's how they did it at a sailing school where I used to teach. Personally I cover it, turn it hard over and secure to the stanchion by the ladder with a reef knot.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 03:00:51

quote:
Originally posted by redeye

I remove the tiller end of every trip

Do you remove the rudder as well, or just the tiller?

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 04:47:45

<< Do you remove the rudder as well, or just the tiller? >>

Just the tiller.

I have a bolt with a wing nut removable by hand. Extra bolts and wing nuts onboard. Don't hafta keep up with a cover or lines and it does not deteriorate inside. Procedure started by previous owner after someone stole his tiller.

Big Marina here with all kinds of people.

So the rudder swings free and we get big wakes at my dock and I have not seen any damage from the free swinging rudder, but to be clear it is an inland lake, without any big swells.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 06:52:20

Wear and tear on the pintles??

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 07:31:08

I've always just slipped the cover on, lifted the tiller and hooked it into the mainsheet tackle. Quick, easy and effective.

I'm in a finger slip but do this at anchor as well. It keeps the cockpit clear but the tiller is easily dropped when needed.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 14:06:46

Tim, I too do that but mainly just to get the tiller out of the way. I never left the boat with it that way so I can't comment on if it would stay there or cause damage. I think the main problem here is not having a cover and the loops and line are just not pulled tight enough allowing the loops to slip in a sawing action as the tiller moves slightly back and forth. Tillers aren't cheap and you severely shorten their life without a cover.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 17:39:47

Here is a photo of the tiller, cover on, lashed to port
The blue bag covers my mainsheet. I have since remade it out of shrink wrap material, they throw tons of it away each year and the mainsheet cover now lasts for years.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 17:47:33

Here is a photo of my bungee set up. As Steve said above and I agree this is NOT for self steering. I single hand and this allows me to leave the tiller for short amounts of time to do chores only.
I think I said it had a loop in the center clearly I use a clove hitch and can set the tiller off center if needed.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2019 : 19:47:09

Just wanted to add that not all bungee cords are made equal....look around. I have not shopped lately, but Ace Hardware these past many years sold a flat bungee about 1/2" in width with a slick cover (nylon?) and a plastic hook on each end that fit perfectly over the push pit tubing. If I recall they came in 2-3 different lengths although length was adjustable. They hold the tiller well and the nylon cover does not scratch the polyurethane finish on my tiller if used when sailing. On the mooring I use a tiller cover and line because as Steve noted, bungees do deteriorate in sunlight although if a storm is predicted I use both the line and the bungee together to keep the tiller in place. Used this way, mine has lasted several years here in the NE without needing to be replaced.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2019 : 03:25:46

dont know if they still make it, but defender has some on clearance. I bought some Schaefer Long Life Shock Cord, and his stuff is highly UV resistant, having a polyester cover.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2019 : 05:05:19

<< Wear and tear on the pintles?? >>

Exactly what I thought especially since changing out the pintles on the hull is a job... but I haven't seen any changes on them in 20 years so I've quit wondering.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

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