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Cabintop Winch

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Joey
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/02/2020 : 14:08:55

There is a triple-clutch installed on my cabin top on the starboard side, but no winch. I can pull the main halyard pretty easily by hand 95% of the way up, but the last 5% is a problem.

I'm not sure if the sheave is an issue, or it's literally that difficult to hoist and tighten the main sail all the way by hand (even jumping up to the mast and pulling straight down, it won't go the last 6-8 inches up). Maybe the boom is a few inches too high?

What size/number winch would you put on the cabin top, and I'm assuming a self-tailing is overkill (probably just need single speed?).

I'm taking the six hour drive to the boat this weekend and planning on moving the clutch back and installing a winch, (because using the jib sheet winches for the halyards is a really tough angle when there's tension on the halyard).

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions!

Joey Coffman
Still Time '82 C25 SR #3001
San Diego, CA
Prescott, AZ

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2020 : 15:45:44

I've got enough length on the main halyard to reach the jib winch in the cockpit and use that to tension the main. I have to be extra careful not to override because of the angle.

After that, I'm done with it as it's free for the jib sheet.

I do have a winch on the port cabin top for the jib.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5232 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2020 : 15:46:41

Hi Joey,
Welcome to the forum. This seems a little problematic since it works fine most of the way and only gets hung in the last foot or two. I recall some advice my dad gave me when I was about 12 � if something should work smoothly and it�s jammed, don�t force it � you will probably break it.

The issue might be: (a) your sail slides or mast track may need some lubricant, (b) there could be something that�s in the way � like part of the masthead or a shroud, (c) there could have been a ding that bent the sail track up near the top end or (d) a kink in the line. Maybe something else?

As a first check you might try the following: inspect the halyard line for issues, look at your topmost sail slides for excessive wear that may indicate binding, spray some silicone slide lubricant on the track and slides, or if you don�t have any, you could also use some bar-soap on the slides.

I would not force it using a winch without knowing whether there were something holding it up. You might be unpleasantly surprised.

On Passage, I can manually raise the sail 95% of the way very easily, then as the luff tightens and the boom rises a little, I have to give it just a little bit more tug. If it�s any tighter, I usually add lube.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2020 : 16:06:52

And.... noticed I made no attempt to answer your question, sorry. My cabintop for the jib, anyway, is single-speed 7.

After reading Bruce's comments, it you do need one, you don't need much.

I actually only snug it up when the wind is high, otherwise just by hand.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2020 : 16:44:30

If the downhaul is untied, you should be able to pull the mainsail all the way to the top without the aid of a winch. If you can't, then the likelihood is that it's binding somewhere. The mast sheaves might be worn or broken, or the mast's kerf might be dirty or salt-caked.

But, it sounds more like what you're saying is that you can't tension your sail enough. When you raise the sail at the mast, you can pull down on the halyard, and your body weight helps you tension the sail. When you lead a halyard aft to the cockpit, you add a little extra friction, and you can't put all your weight on it to tension it. So, you probably need a winch to provide mechanical advantage to help you tension the mainsail in stronger winds, and especially when you tuck in a reef. That's when a cabin top winch can help.

You don't need a very big winch for that purpose. Someone here can recommend winch size. My cabin top winches are Harkens, and I don't remember their size (probably Harken sixes or maybe eights).

A single speed winch is sufficient. You don't need a self-tailer, but one might be nice if you find a used one at a good price. There are usually lots of winches advertised on Ebay. There's a lot of junk, but there are nice ones too. I'd advise paying a little more for a nicer one.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Joey
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2020 : 18:36:09

It seems that something may be jammed near the top, because even with all my weight and strength at the mast, at the dock with no wind, pulling straight down (I'm fairly fit despite what my kids tell me), I can't raise it completely. It's a bit frustrating sailing in light wind with a gap in the luff/tack.

Steve, can you tell me what "kerf" is?

I'm thinking of venturing to the top of the mast this weekend to check things out and possibly replacing the sheave, but I've never climbed the mast. Is doing this (replacing the sheave at the slip) within the scope of a DIY, or is this strictly a job for a professional rigger?

Joey Coffman
Still Time '82 C25 SR #3001
San Diego, CA
Prescott, AZ

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2020 : 18:57:00

The kerf is the slot in the mast.

Replacing the masthead sheaves is very easy. Each sheave is held in place by a clevis pin with a cotter pin on the end. The hard part is getting to them. You either have to lower the mast or go up the mast in a bosun's chair. You probably shouldn't try to go up the mast using a halyard on bad sheaves, and you can't replace the sheaves if you're suspended by them, so you should lower the mast.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2020 : 04:00:21

I use the cabin top winch to tighten up the main the last bit and smooth out the wrinkles unless I want it a little loose in light winds.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 06/03/2020 05:41:54

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2020 : 05:00:21

Joey, I had a piece of broken sail slug jammed in my mast track once, near the top. You may be able to use binoculars to see what's going on up there.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
200 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2020 : 06:46:35

My cabin top winches are 6�s I use them the same way Scott does to smooth out the the wrinkles sometimes I also us the starboard side winch for the � dock-0- matic� a very handy contraption, I gleaned from this forum, for exiting or entering my slip on my very windy lake.

Angus
S.V.Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

Edited by - C25BC on 06/04/2020 16:39:20

RandyAmy
1st Mate

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USA
40 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2020 : 09:43:43

Nothing hanging up/holding the boom too low not allowing you to pull the sail all the way up?

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2020 : 11:37:42

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Wnccat25
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2020 : 17:41:06

I loosen the Vang and main sheet before I raise the main sail. The furling line had to be loosened once before it would go up all the way up. The slugs could have a problem anywhere in the mast track, not just near the top, slugs or track. Is the sail hitting the top, to tall? If the bolt rope has shrunken, the sail will have wrinkles and appear tight.

INDIAN, 89 Catalina 25,wing keel,short rig, classic. W-NC

Joey
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2020 : 09:53:31

Thank you for the feedback.

When I get to the boat I will check to see if anything is restricting the slugs in the track.

And I'm still planning on moving the clutch back a few inches and installing the single-speed winch. I think it will be nice to have for tightening the main the last few inches (once I figure out what's in the way!)

Thanks!

Joey Coffman
Still Time '82 C25 SR #3001
San Diego, CA
Prescott, AZ

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