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Solar Nicro vent motor

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/21/2015 : 05:06:43

The motor for the Solar nicro vent has died... Can someone remind me where to buy a new motor.. ( Davy ? )

Thanks...

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 09/23/2015 06:03:51

redeye
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Response Posted - 09/21/2015 : 05:09:54

OK.. Never mind .. it is apparently:

Sundance Solar - part # 700-60062-00

ANybody used one of these?

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2015 : 05:31:25

That's the one. Luckily my original motor is still going......

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 09/21/2015 : 09:54:26

Right now based on experience with the Sundance Motor - That is the way to go.

But I am working on another option. I brought my Nicro Solar Vent into the office - A co-worker is very knowledgeable on electronics and so he took one of my two past failed Nicro's home to fool around with it. below is a write-up he prepared. I have yet to fully test out the Nicro he replaced the failed motor with one he purchased via the link in his below write-up. Right now, I have a new Nicro installed on my boat but I am going to put a rechargeable battery into the one he fixed and see how it works and charges daily/weekly/etc and then report back here with the results. He also got the old motor running again but he still has it and chose to install the new motor. So, I may get to check out one of the old motor overhauls after I give him another Nicro that failed awhile ago and I still have in my garage. Here's his write-up - Even longer than my typical postings !!

Marc's write-up::

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E4WQENM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

Larry, the link above gets you to the motor I used. This motor is slightly smaller in diameter and its shaft is just a bit shorter than the original one, but it can be adapted very easily.

First off, although it's not obvious, the item above is a package of 2 motors, so even if you mess one up, you still have one spare (all for about $12, including shipping). Now, this is what I did to adapt the new motor:

1. Obviously, the electrical connections have to be the same as the old one, which by this time should have been removed from its cavity. Fortunately, both motors have the "+" pole marked. If I remember correctly, the "+" contact is where the 1 ohm resistor is soldered.
2. Make a couple of strips of rubber using an old bicycle inner tube, the width should be equal to the length of the motor can and the length should be just a bit shorter than the motor circumference. Then using contact cement, wrap the motor in the two layers of rubber. Finally, wrap one layer of electrical tape around the whole thing. If you need more thickness, just add more layers of electrical tape.
3. Push the motor all the way in the motor cavity. You'll encounter some resistance toward the end. Make sure the shaft protrudes as far as it can because you're going to need every fraction of an inch of it. If the motor fit is too tight, peel off the tape. If it's too loose, wrap more tape around it until the fit is tight but not too tight.
4. Now reassemble the rest of the components and you're done.

If you want to try to re-use the original motor:
1. with a small screwdriver, straighten the crimps that hold the plastic back end to the metal can.
2. Remove the back end. The back end has a dual function: rear bearing and holder for the brushes.
3. Remove the rotor from the can. It should come out easily since there's nothing retaining it.
4. Inspect the components. Typically, there are two reasons why these motors stop working: a. the brushes or commutator deteriorates; or b. the bearings deteriorate.
5. The commutator (the part of the rotor that is in contact with the brushes) can typically be cleaned by rubbing a common eraser on it until you can no longer see any deposits of foreign metal or carbon.
6. The brushes of these small motors are typically metal, not carbon, so while they do wear a bit, they rarely wear out to the point where they are no longer usable. Normally, a bit of cleaning and some retentioning (i.e. deforming them to increase the pressure on the commutator) will do the job.
7. The bearings, especially the front metal one, may corrode a bit, especially if your boat is used on saltwater as opposed to a river or lake. Regardless, if you feel there is too much friction you can add a bit of machine oil and that will typically do the trick. At worst, you may want to take a drill bit of the right diameter and, while twisting it with your hand, make it go through the bearing.
8. To put the motor back together, it's best to fit the plastic back end to the commutator end of the shaft, that way you can visually check that the brushes are seated correctly on the commutator. Then fit the front end of the rotor into the front bearing and fit the plastic end back into the can. Hold it in place with some tape and test it before locking it in place with the crimps you undid in step 1. When you are satisfied that the motor runs, then go ahead and crimp the can to lock the back end. This can be done by lightly tapping on a small screwdriver with a hammer until the crimps "lock" the back end to the can.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 09/21/2015 10:04:34

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2015 : 05:46:05

Larry.. Thank You, that was very helpful. I've got a complete extra nicroVent so I can rebuild it at home. Ordered three motors.

The bike innertube mounting is a great idea.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 09/23/2015 06:03:11

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2015 : 06:31:14

FWIW, I exchanged several e-mails with Marinco's Tech Service (for Nicro), who sent me a motor in a kit. Mine had failed within the 2-year warranty, so the kit was free (even though I had contacted them a little late).

Technical Service
800.307.6702 direct
262.293.7026 fax

technical@marinco.com

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

redeye
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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2015 : 06:49:26

<< Marinco's Tech Service >>

They shipped me a whole new vent after the second one I purchased had died within the warranty time. I gave one to another sailor and still have an extra one to work on.

Great Service.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 09/23/2015 06:50:08

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2015 : 09:33:34

Now that I think about it, Marinco would have sent me a new vent if I had come to them within the warranty period--since it was quite a bit later, they sent me the motor kit--free.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2015 : 18:39:18

Wow in spite of several measures I've taken - refurbishing the motor, replacing the motor, replacing the battery, etc - I could not get mine working again. So now it's a passive vent on the forward hatch. I still have the little solar panel mounted on it and I've often thought to use it to charge a LiPO (lithium phosphate) battery like you see in solar lights, it hardly seems worthwhile. Perhaps this winter I'll make it completely passive and cut open the vent as much as possible.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2015 : 05:12:51

I'm soooo temped to wire it to the house battery, or another completely separate battery and solar panel.

but first I'll try a rebuild of the current design.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2015 : 08:42:59

I still have to endurance test the one Nicro Vent my co-worker replaced with the alternate motor in lieu of the Sundance motor. Today, I dropped off the other failed Nicro vent I had from years past. I am going to discuss with him how we will fix that one since he another new motor but we probably will install the existing Nicro Vent motor he took out of my other unit and opened it up, cleaned it and got it running. Not sure how it will stand up to testing but it's worth a try. I just charged up two rechargeable batteries I had laying around and so will start testing soon. if the first one seems to run okay for a week or, I may then take off my new Nicro vent and install the refurbished one and see how it stands up to continuous use. I'll report out on it's ongoing status.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

redeye
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Response Posted - 09/25/2015 : 07:14:51

I have the motors in and bought new batteries from batteries plus, and of course they could not sell me batteries without "upselling" me "better" batteries.. 4000 mAH instead of 3200 mAH batteries and of course I don't know what voltage they have so I've gotta look into that.

I'm gonna try to use the existing 1 ohm resistor before ordering another one but I may get a chance to pick up a new one on the way home.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2015 : 10:26:23

The NiMH battery runs at 1.2VDC. AA NiMH provide 2400 mAH of power. A C size battery can be a AA wrapped in a C size enclosure or a full C-size battery with 3000 mAH.
A regular alkaline dry cell runs at 1.5VDC.
There are now also Lithium batteries in the AA and unusual A size battery. These operate at 3.0VDC at 600-800 mAH. They are used in solar LED lights and technically called Lithium Phosphate batteries.
They provide about the same power VxA but because they run at a higher voltage will discharge more quickly than a NiMH battery. It'll run your fan at higher RPMs too.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

redeye
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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2015 : 06:35:39

I added the bike tube and several layers of linen tape to the new motor.
New motor on right old on the left, and the shaft on the new motor is shorter.

This is the wiring setup factory. The battery clips can be pushed out to get to the wiring. Hot ( white ) from the solar cell to the resistor and then to the motor with the hot side of the battery. Negative ( black ) from the cell to the battery, to the switch, to the motor.

This is factory wiring and motor pulled out.

The new motor wired in.. pretty delicate soldering.

A screw held the factory motor and switch in and the new motor would not be held in nor centered, and the shaft is shorter so I cut the bottom of the housing off and removed it.

I pushed the motor down some and gorilla glued it in place. It runs quiet now and I'll let yall know how long it lasts.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 09/28/2015 06:40:47

OLarryR
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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2015 : 09:19:00

Update on the option to clean/overhaul the existing motor. Co-worker and I inspected the internals of the second of the two failed units (the other one he had previously overhauled and it runs but we did not install it - We favored the motor replacement option. The internals of the existing motor - There is plenty to clean off but what looks like a significant issue to restoring it reliably is that the commutator spindle has grooves in it from the metal brushes. When he overhauled the 1st existing motor, he got it to run by slightly bending the metal brushes. However, while that may work, the spindle does have some significant grooves in it and that may spell a much shorter life even if the brushes are bent further in to make contact. I may test out the one he overhauled but right now more interested in testing out the unit with the replaced motor and that is they way we will go with the second unit I provided to him.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

redeye
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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2015 : 04:44:29

My update.. the fan is already running slow in full sun.. So it looks like this project was a FAIL!!!

I'll try a new battery and then it's back to the drawing board...

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2017 : 19:01:38

This week I got a West Marine Memorial Day Super Sale flyer, and don't you know - Nicro Vents are on sale. $99.99 for white plastic or stainless. So for anybody who'd like to replace their old one, now' your chance! Sale ends on May 29.

I lucked out. Some time ago my motor fried. Last spring (2016), I found a 3" personal fan with a USB connector. I wired this up to the old Nicro solar panel and viola, it spun in full and partial sun. The body of the fan fit into the old opening.

I'm thinking of installing a NiMH AA cell to allow the fan to run into the evening. I've got a 2400 mAH AA battery that should work fine.

Good luck on whatever you do.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 05/20/2017 19:02:36

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 05/20/2017 : 19:07:10

So . . . . . the real question: is it worth it??? If the motor fries/fails in two to three years, is the advantage worth the effort or should those of us with the original "manual" vents *(powered by wind/breeze - vs solar) just keep them??? Spending between @$50-@$100 in time/labor/replacement parts could mount up!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/20/2017 : 19:35:24

Since this thread is active once again, I'll put in my two cents worth for others' benefit.

I've never been a fan of the Nicro solar vents, due to reliability issues that I've heard about. I opted to put a small Peltier dehumidifier in my C250, and it worked great.

But my C34MkII came with a Nicro solar vent, including the big gaping hole on the otherwise nice acrylic Lewmar hatch. So I was stuck with it. It only worked in the daytime, so battery was clearly fried. In the offseason I took it apart, and the battery was just a generic 1.2V NiCad C-cell. I shopped around online for a direct replacement, but was having a hard time finding just one battery - everyrone wanted to sell a bunch of them. The singles that I was finding were flat top C-cell, not the normal C-cell type. But I have a whole bunch of Sanyo Eneloop AA NiMH batteries, and some C-cell sleeves. So I tried that and it works fine. It's clearly less capacity than the C-cell, but I have yet to wake up in the morning without the fan spinning at full speed. So it would appear that the C-cell is more capacity than needed, and of course since it's a NiCad its memory effect will reduce its capacity to the typical discharge amount. So I'm about as happy as I can be with this thing now.

I know this isn't totally related to the motor repair that's posted, but I'm offering it up in case anyone else needs to replace a battery. Note that different generations of Nicro vents may have different battery specs, so don't assume that yours uses a generic C-cell. Check first.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2017 : 19:40:26

Passive vents are nice when there's a breeze from the right direction, which is more likely in the daytime when you don't need it. A solar vent keeps pulling the moist daytime air out as the boat cools at night in still air, when that inside air wants to drop heavy dew all over the interior. A vent could be connected to a house battery, but for how many consecutive days and nights without solar charging?

I grabbed a Nicro on sale at WM for $99, even though mine (with the replacement motor) was still working--my confidence in it is limited, but better options are not apparent, and when the Nicro works, it's very effective. (Also, I already have the correct size hole in the deck and the Nicro sleeve in it.) The motors are their weakness--everything else is their strength. Life is a compromise (or a bunch of them).

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/20/2017 19:42:03

OLarryR
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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2017 : 04:39:21

The motor replacement that I posted, above, did not work very well. The motor was shorter than the original and it worked for some time but then failed. Besides, if you pushed on the black button to turn it off, since the motor was shorter, it had moved up inside the casing, stopping it. The Sundance motor mentioned by others may be the way to go. The Marinco/Nicro motor kit, I believe it is fairly expensive but that is a clear option.

I recall also having a Nicro-Vent that failed during the warranty period and it was replaced free by Marinco. That one eventually also failed.

Here is another option to consider - It will at least get you past the first failure if it occurs just past the std warranty. When you next buy a Nicro-Vent, catch it on sale at West Marine. Buy the extended warranty - It should cost about $12...Check what the extended warranty cost these days - It's predicated on the purchase price and so if you catch the vent on sale, the extended warranty is also less expensive. The cost is based on West Marine's std extended warranty policies and not specific to the Nicro-Vents not being that reliable. Chances are that your new Nicro-Vent will die during the extended warranty. Mine just did !! I am going to take it in and get me a new one under the extended warranty policy.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

JohnP
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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2017 : 11:13:46

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

The motors are their weakness--everything else is their strength. Life is a compromise (or a bunch of them).

Well, my Nicro solar vent (without a battery) has worked perfectly on the foredeck in front of the mast since I bought the boat 12 years ago, but one day a jib sheet caught the housing and tore it right off and into the drink!

I don't need a new battery, but rather a new plastic or metal housing! I guess I will call Marinco and ask if they have that part for sale.

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2017 : 04:22:38

John,

I am amazed that your Nicro lasted so long !!!! Only thing is that without a battery and it running only during sun hours, the primary function it is not performing. That is when the sun goes down and temps start to cool during the summer season - The moisture condenses out of the air as it cools. This is primarily when the Nicro does it's most important job - It replaces during the evening hrs, when it's battery is running, the warm, moist cabin air with cooler air from the outside. In this way, it helps minimize water moisture inside the cabin by continually replacing the hot warm moist cabin air. If the warm moist air was not replaced, during the evening hrs, as temps cool in the cabin, water/moisture would condense out of the warm moist cabin air onto inside surfaces of the cabin.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

bigelowp
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1736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2017 : 10:20:33

There must be a business opportunity for someone here. Clearly, there is a need for a quality solar vent. Even if/when buying on sale, extended warranty, changing batteries, etc., etc., I question the value vs. hassle factor. Frankly, a battery powered fan on a timer may be the best solution for changing evening air

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Voyager
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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2017 : 19:21:07

It's the cheesy motor that's the problem. And permanent magnet DC motors are not that complicated. The brushes and commutators can be made of hardened brass and the motor bearings can be made of Teflon. These motors should be able to run continuously for 20 years! That said, a good source of expect replacement motors should be identified.
My O2Cool USB powered motor continues to work like a champ. I've just got to replace the NiMH battery to get the evening action and it should be fine.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

OLarryR
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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2017 : 04:18:25

Agree...and the motors only cost about $5 - $10 of the purchase price.

Another option which I use up front where the air does not circulate (trapped in the VBerth/Porta-Potti area) is an Eva-Dry Dehumidifier. No batteries or onboard AC or DC. You plug it into the AC overnight at home. Then place it onboard. The dessicant beads within the canister turn color after about 2 - 4 weeks and that is then the time to bring it home and plug it into the AC again to dry out the beads. You can recharge it 100s of times and the Eva-Dry 500 costs about $29. maybe have two and place one in the main cabin if not power venting thru a Nicro.
Below is link to Eva-Dry. The 500 unit lists for $29.95 but Amazon has it for $21+ and a smaller one, the 333 Model (that is representing cubic feet coverage) selling on Amazon for under $15.

https://www.eva-dry.com/dehumidifiers/eva-dry-500-mini-dehumidifier/

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/26/2017 05:00:12

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