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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Fishing for winds

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Esteban
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139 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/26/2005 : 20:54:33

Okay - second year out sailing and loving every moment of it. Best of all is a family that also enjoys it.

Question on hunting for winds. I/we sail in the Chesapeake and thrilled to see fall arrive and the winds to pick up again.

I usually blast out straight for the open water and making straight line for our distination. Somehow I always thought you could grab better winds out on the open water. I've come to notice by watching others and doing so myself, that if I sail closer to the shore there tends to be significantly higher wind speeds especially with onshore winds. I mean quite a difference!

So I'm I full of it or is this another sailing eureka? Thoughts?

Esteban

Esteban Diaz
Tally Ho!

Edited by - on

Gambit
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160 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2005 : 09:02:07

Sometimes wind will bend to the contours of the shore which could result in higher speeds. I am just a lake sailor though so I deal with winds on a 17 mile long Finger Lake that is nestled between hills. The lake runs north to south. The hills normally shade the wind close to shore if coming from the east or west. If blowing from the north or south they will bend around the points sometimes.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2005 : 09:54:47

Here's a short answer to a topic that can fill volumes.

Wind is the result of pressure differences in the atmosphere. Where the pressure gradient (pressure difference/distance) is strong, the wind will be too.

Pressure gradients can be fairly localized (often due to landmass heating), large-scale as in weather 'systems' or global in scale as with the tradewinds.

The effects of landmass heating often produces 'summer' seabreezes. These are usually strongest near shore where the pressure gradient is strongest and go through regular daily patterns as the land heats and cools.

Regional or 'global' wind patterns are often stronger over open water but can be magnified as the winds encounter headlands, bays etc.

The interaction of land/wind/ocean produce many interesting effects... wind holes, wind funnels, odd swirls and eddies... this is the stuff that 'local knowledge' is made of.

I remember one day on Humboldt bay where I sailed a 500 yard circle at about 4kts... without tacking. Where was the wind going to? Up I guess!

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2005 : 10:41:31

Wind moves over the water in ribbons or boils. In boils, or cells, the main circulation is vertical. This is how we get gusts and wind shifts, you sail from one cell to another. You can see the cells on the water, and they are moving downwind. Ribbons are horizontal circulation that form bands of wind, sometimes in different directions and strengths.

Land can shadow the wind or accelerate it. Clouds can concentrate wind, especially on the windward side of the cloud (there can be a wind shadow behind).

As you sail your area, make a note of the prevailing wind direction and weather each day. For example NW winds 10 knots with a cold front approaching. Then as you sail around, make a little wind map.

Believe me, racers do this, and not only make the map, but time all the wind shifts and gusts. Depending on the weather, these can be highly predictable.

If you want to learn all about this and much much more, read the book "High Performance Sailing" by Frank Bethwaithe (may be spelling the last name wrong). This is the most amazing book on how wind, land, air temp, sea temp, currents, waves, and sailboats work together. Highly scientific. Not a handbook.

Frank was designer of the Laser 2 and meteoroligist for the Austrailian Olympic sailing team.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2005 : 13:49:11

Last week I was sailing up the western shore from near the Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power station to Annapolis, and noticed a boat that was sailing the same direction, but about a half-mile closer to the shore than I. He had distinctly stronger winds than I did, and I believe he was working that windline. In the lighter winds further offshore, I couldn't keep up with him.

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sdaly66
Navigator

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143 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2005 : 12:01:12

Steve and Esteban,

Do let me know when you're going to be out and around and Thomas Point area. I sail out of the West River via the Rhode River and Cadle Creek (tied up two slips down from Bubba).

We should all do a raft-up before the weather gets too cold.

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Esteban
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139 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2005 : 20:53:44

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts on the subject.

Today was an awesome day for sailing! Any day you exceed hull speed and average 5.4 for a few hours is a great day! Unfortunately I didn't have to hunt for wind - it was everywhere. This is shapping up to be an awesome fall...

Thanks again - Esteban

Edited by - on

sdaly66
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2005 : 08:45:47

I plan to be out there tomorrow - playing hookie from work

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2005 : 09:14:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Today was an awesome day for sailing! Any day you exceed hull speed and average 5.4 for a few hours is a great day!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Yeah, yesterday was spectacular. I sailed down to the Solomons with Kip Casada, a sailing friend from Ohio who is a frequent contributor to the forum. He left for Ohio this morning, and I was going to sail back, but they started talking about 30 knot winds, and then 40 knot winds, and now they're predicting gusts up to 50, so I've decided to stay here another day, take down my bimini and double up some docklines. This is a pretty nice place to hang out during a storm.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 09/29/2005 09:17:16

TRogers
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2005 : 20:44:01

"I remember one day on Humboldt bay where I sailed a 500 yard circle at about 4kts... without tacking. Where was the wind going to? Up I guess!"

Many years ago I used to fly radio control gliders. Your general goal was to keep yourself aloft was to find columns of rising air. Picture a minature hurricane system that is swirling counterclockwise(?), but of course with much lower wind speeds. A "dust devil" would be a fairly obvious indicator of this column of air, but most of the time they would not be this obvious (you would look for signs like circling hawks, subtle wind shifts, flags blowing in different directions on opposite ends of the field).

Once you found this column of circulating and rising air, you would do your best to circle in it as it slowly moved downwind. All in all, I was pretty lousy at finding these rising columns of air. Others were much more proficient at it.

I would assume that overall winds would have to have been rather light that day. If not, they would have overridden the circular wind effect and you probably would have never noticed it otherwise.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2005 : 13:56:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I remember one day on Humboldt bay where I sailed a 500 yard circle at about 4kts... without tacking. Where was the wind going to? Up I guess!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just so you guys know that Bruce isn't making that up, I've done it too, on Brookville lake, in southern Indiana.

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Derek Crawford
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3324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2005 : 14:21:54

Canyon Lake has its wierd moments too! (Just ask Frank!

) I've been close-hauled on stbd 20 yards behind a boat close-hauled on port and we were both on the same heading! I've been poled-out almost dead downwind and met a spinnaker boat coming straight at me!
Once we were going to weather and a wind shift swung over the boom and backwinded the jib - all we did was bring over the jib and keep the same heading.
As we say to new sailors who complain about our shifty winds "welcome to Canyon Lake, mate!)
Incidentally Esteban, when the shoreline is hilly there will always be more wind on the leeward shore than the windward. It's called "the picket fence effect". The wind will begin to rise off the water anywhere up to 100 yards offshore and you will often see a dead calm lake close to the shore. Whereas on the leeward shore the wind sweeps down off the hillside and hits the water almost immediately.
Derek

Edited by - on

Esteban
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139 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2005 : 18:03:04

Yup - I can see the wind effect with a hilly shoreline (Few found in northern Chesapeake). I seem to find onshore winds being significantly higher than out on the open water. My observation is primarily out on Hart Miller Island out of Middle River, which is a giant land fill, level and no more than 25 feet above water (If anyone is familiar). It's like hoping on the freeway...

By the way - Esteban is spanish for Steven, but Im sure Steve is aware of that. Plan on going out again tomorrow. Thanks for all the insight!

Esteban

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