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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/01/2005 : 17:01:53

[08/05/05 19:00 CDT EDIT: A REVISED COPY OF THE NEW CONSTITUTION AND BY-LAWS CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE TWO OF THIS THREAD.]

The current Officers have worked hard to draft a new Constitution and By-Laws that both address past issues and allow for the inclusion of the Capri 25 Class. The new Constitution and By-Laws, along with some very minor changes to the C25 and C250 Class Rules, will be presented to the Members on the forthcoming election ballot. Unfortunately, our annual balloting methodology is an all or nothing proposition, so the Officers would like to request your review and comments regarding these documents in advance of the vote. Please comment within this thread or email your comments to any of the current Officers. Thank you in advance.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CONSTITUTION AND BY-LAWS

I. NAME: All Catalina Built 25 Class Association

II. OBJECTIVES: The purpose of the All Catalina Built 25 Class Association (“Association”) is

A. The promotion of the enjoyment of ownership, cruising and racing of 25’ LOA sloops built by Catalina Yachts.

B. The fair and reasonable maintenance of the value of Catalina 25, Catalina 250 and Capri 25 sloops (collectively “Yachts” and individually “Class”) through communication, education and the dissemination of information.

C. The promotion of cruising and social activities that encourage fellowship amongst members through the development of local and regional All Catalina Built 25 Class Fleets (“Fleet”).

D. The promotion of design class racing under uniform rules and regulations that will test the skill of skipper and crew through the establishment of design standards and specifications that ensure competition between boats of similar design and performance in all essential areas, such as hull lines, weights, and sail plans.

E. The cooperation with other yachting and racing organizations in the observance of, and compliance with, the rules and regulations of the Association.

F. The sanctioning, sponsorship, promotion, and coordination of an annual National Championship Regatta (“Nationals”) when such event is bid upon and held by a Fleet (Article VII).

III. MEMBERSHIP:

A. Regular Member: A Regular Member shall be defined as the owner or part owner of a Yacht that joins the Association, is a Corinthian (i.e., amateur of high integrity), and whose membership dues are paid current. Regular Member status shall be extended to those ownership-partners (financial, marital or otherwise) that are also Corinthians, as designated on the membership application at the time of registration. Regular Members, in good standing, may vote in elections per Article VIII, hold office per Article IV, and skipper a Yacht in sanctioned races in accordance with the By-Laws and Design Class Rules. Voting for revisions to Design Class Rules (Article VIIII, Section A.) may only be cast by Regular Members within the Class to which the Regular Member belongs.

B. Honorary Member: An Honorary Member shall be defined as any other person that joins the Association and whose membership dues are paid current. Honorary Members may not vote, may not hold office and may not skipper a Yacht in sanctioned races unless approved by a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B).

C. Dues: Annual membership dues must be paid current in order for a Member to be considered in good standing. A vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B) shall be needed to adjust the annual membership dues amount, such adjustment not to occur more than once yearly, as seen fit to meet the financial needs of the Association. However, any annual increase or decrease in excess of ten percent (10%) shall be fixed by a vote of the Regular Members (Article VIII, Section A).

D. Membership Benefits: The benefits of membership include 1) those derived from the Objectives of the Association, 2) quarterly receipt of the Mainsheet Magazine, and 3) access to an Association website.

IV. OFFICERS:

A. The elected officers of the Association (“Officers”) shall be Commodore, Vice Commodore, Secretary, Treasurer, Chief Measurer and Capri 25 Measurer. The incumbent Secretary, by any means deemed effective and appropriate by the incumbent Officers, shall issue a call for nominations by August 7 (self-nominations acceptable) and shall distribute ballots prior to September 7. The election for Officers shall be completed by September 30 via a vote of the Regular Members (Article VIII, Section A). Terms of office shall commence October 1 and shall be for a period of twelve months, however, if for whatever reason elections are delayed the incumbent Officers shall serve an extended term and the elections shall be completed in as timely a manner as reasonable. No term limits shall apply.

B. For the period beginning September 30, 2005 and ending September 30, 2007 (the “Integration Trial Period”), Regular Members belonging to the Capri 25 Class are only eligible to hold the office of Capri 25 Measurer, but are immediately eligible to serve in any Staff position. At any time and for any reason during or after the Integration Trial Period, a majority vote of the Regular Members in good standing of the Catalina 25 and Catalina 250 Classes may effect the disassociation of the Capri 25 Class from the Association, and cause all record of the Capri 25 Class to be stricken from the Association Constitution, By-Laws and Design Class Rules. In such instance of a Capri 25 Class disassociation, the annual membership dues of the Capri 25 Class Members shall be refunded in full for the current year.

C. Responsibilities of the Officers

COMMODORE: The Commodore shall preside at any Association or Officers Meetings, approve any annual reports or official actions of the Officers, appoint special committees as required, rule on procedure and jurisdiction, authorize expenditures and perform other functions as may be warranted for the proper management of the Association. The Commodore shall also fix the date of any Association or Officers Meetings (Article VI), and shall coordinate Association activities with other Catalina Fleets and yachting organizations.

VICE COMMODORE: The Vice Commodore shall, in the absence of the Commodore, preside and perform the duties of the Commodore, and such other duties as specified by the Commodore. The Vice Commodore shall serve as Chairman of the Nationals Organizing Committee (“NOC”) and, as such, shall solicit bids from the Fleets to host the Nationals for the following year (Article VII).

SECRETARY: The Secretary shall, in the absence of the Vice Commodore, preside and perform the duties of the Vice Commodore. The Secretary shall maintain the minutes, records and membership register of the Association, as reasonable. Furthermore, the Secretary shall be responsible for providing for the posting of the minutes, calls for meetings and nominations, and distribution of ballots, as set forth in the other sections of this document. The membership register of the Association may be reviewed by any Officer upon request being made of the Secretary.

Fleet development manuals may be obtained from the Secretary, and contain valuable information for consideration in the formation of a Fleet. The minimum requirement for the sanctioning of a new Fleet is the participation of three Regular Members of the Association; although an Officer review of the Fleet By-Laws for the applicant is desirable.

TREASURER: The Treasurer shall, in the absence of the Secretary, preside and perform the duties of the Secretary. The Treasurer shall maintain the financial records of the Association, as reasonable. Furthermore, the Treasurer shall receive dues and fees, deposit and disperse funds, prepare financial statements, and generally conduct the financial affairs of the Association. The financial records of the Association may be inspected by any Member, in good standing, for any reasonable purpose and at any reasonable time upon thirty days written notice to the Treasurer. All check expenditures shall be authorized by the signatures of any two of the following: Commodore, Vice Commodore, or Treasurer. A petty cash fund may be established by the Treasurer by a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B).

CHIEF MEASURER: The Chief Measurer shall maintain the Design Class Rules, serve as Vice Chairman of the NOC, and serve as Chairman of the Class Racing Committee (“CRC”). The Chief Measurer as NOC Vice Chairman shall, in the absence of the NOC Chairman, preside and perform the duties of the NOC Chairman. Furthermore, the Chief Measurer shall make evaluations, presentations and recommendations to the Officers regarding significant or controversial changes or rulings related to the Design Class Rules or the Rules of Racing. The Chief Measurer or designate shall administer and interpret the Design Class Rules and shall supervise the measuring, recording and inspection of all sails and boats (including compliance with class rules) at Nationals.

CAPRI 25 MEASURER: The Capri 25 Measurer shall maintain the Design Class Rules in conjunction with the Chief Measurer. The Capri 25 Measurer shall, in the absence of the Chief Measurer, preside and perform the duties of the Chief Measurer, and such other duties as specified by the Chief Measurer.

D. The vacancy of an Officer position may be filled by a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B).

V. STAFF:

A. Staff positions are filled by Officer appointment and may include any of the following:

MAINSHEET EDITOR: Responsible for editing, submitting and promoting Association content for inclusion in the Mainsheet Magazine

MAINSHEET Catalina C25 TECHNICAL EDITOR: Responsible for submitting Catalina C25-specific technical content to the Mainsheet Editor.

MAINSHEET Catalina C250 TECHNICAL EDITOR: Responsible for submitting Catalina C250-specific technical content to the Mainsheet Editor.

MAINSHEET CAPRI 25 TECHNICAL EDITOR: Responsible for submitting Capri 25-specific technical content to the Mainsheet Editor.

WEBMASTER: Responsible for maintenance of the Association website.

QUARTERMASTER: Responsible for maintenance of the Association store.

B. Staff members serve at the discretion of the Officers and may be removed by a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B).

VI. MEETINGS:

A. An Association Meeting is defined as a gathering, physical or virtual, of the Regular Members whereby a vote of the Regular Members has been held (Article VIII, Section A).

B. An Officers Meeting is defined as a gathering, physical or virtual, of the Officers whereby a vote of the Officers has been held (Article VIII, Section B).

C. Minutes of any Association Meeting or Officers Meeting shall be posted on the website within two (2) weeks of the meeting and made available in written form upon request being made of the Secretary.

VII. NATIONALS:

A. The National Championship Regatta is an annual event hosted by a Fleet and that is sanctioned and sponsored by the Association. It is not an Association event and, therefore, is not guaranteed to occur every year.

B. The Vice Commodore, acting as NOC Chairman and by any means deemed effective and appropriate by the Officers, shall issue a call for Fleet bids to host the Nationals for the following year by April 1.

C. Fleet bids to host the Nationals shall be submitted in writing to the Vice Commodore by June 1 for a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B) by June 30. If no satisfactory bid from a Fleet has been received by June 1, then bidding shall immediately be opened to non-Fleet organizations desiring to host the Nationals.

D. The Vice Commodore and the Chief Measurer serve to help the winning Fleet coordinate and promote the Nationals. Every effort will be made to secure the participation of those Fleet representatives most responsible for previously coordinating the hosting of the National Championship Regatta.

E. The Association’s sponsorship of the Nationals also comes in the form of temporarily funding upfront expenditures and deposits, and provision of a “stop gap” for any reasonable losses incurred by the Fleet for hosting the Nationals. The reasonability of such losses remains the sole discretion of the Association Officers. Additionally, the hosting Fleet shall be allowed to retain any profits generated by the event after a full accounting has been provided to the Officers.

F. The Officers shall make every effort to solicit bids to hold the Nationals on an East, Central/Mountain, West, Central/Mountain, East time zone rotation in order to attempt to provide the greatest number of Regular Members a chance to compete for the title of National Champion. If no bid has been accepted by the designated rotational time zone by June 1, then bidding will be opened to include all time zones with preference going to the time zone not most recently hosting the event. In relation to this section, Indiana shall be considered in the Eastern Time Zone, Arizona in the Central/Mountain Time Zone, and the 2006 Nationals shall begin the rotation in the Eastern Time Zone.

VIII. VOTING:

A. Regular Members Voting

1. Notice of a vote of the Regular Members in good standing will be posted on the Association’s website and in the Association’s newsletter, The TellTale.

2. Balloting shall be conducted electronically via the Association’s website, or through email for those Regular Members so requesting, over a period of not less than two weeks. Ballots for the election of Officers shall be tallied by an independent third party.

3. Voting results shall be posted by the Secretary within two weeks of the close of balloting.

4. A majority of the Regular Members responding to a ballot shall be required to carry a motion or to win an election. In the event of a tie vote, a subsequent vote of the Officers shall serve to cast the deciding vote.

5. Proxy voting shall not be allowed.

B. Officers Voting

1. A majority of the Officers responding to a motion shall be required to carry. In the event of a tie vote, the Commodore shall cast the deciding vote.

VIIII. AMENDMENTS:

A. The Constitution, By-Laws and Design Class Rules may be amended by a vote of the Regular Members (Article VIII, Section A). New rules not in conflict with the Constitution, By-Laws and Design Class Rules may be passed by a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B). The Officers may also vote to simplify, clarify or correct the language of any Article, if the intent or purpose remains substantially unchanged.

X. SUSPENSION:

A. Any Officer or Member may be suspended or expelled by a vote of the Regular Members (Article VIII, Section A) for conduct or action deemed to be prejudicial or injurious to the Association.

B. Any Officer that is known to alter his membership status (Article II, Section A) is expected to surrender the office no later than the expiration of the current term.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CAPRI 25 DESIGN CLASS RULES (The original template with diagrams can be found [url="http://www.wyc.org/capri25/rules.htm"]here[/url] and will be included in the election ballot.)

ARTICLE I

RACING REQUIREMENTS

The purpose of these requirements is to maintain the one design characteristics of the Capri 25 and to ensure that racing will be a true test of sailing abilities in a fair, safe and enjoyable manner.

1. The yacht must be sailed with factory standing rigging and hull, factory standard interiors, windows, hatch, companionway boards, or equivalent, with factory specified mounting and placement of stays. No other non-factory specified stays shall be allowed such as baby stays or running backstays.

2. Bow pulpit, stern rail, and stanchions shall be factory standard or equivalent. Life lines shall be factory standard or equivalent and shall be sufficiently taut.

3. No inside ballast shall be carried.

4. Class approved sails as stated in Article II-D.

5. Engine capable of propelling yacht at 5 knots, bracket and fuel.

6. Battery and navigational lights are required.

7. Head or fitted bucket on board.

8. Yachts must meet all applicable governmental safety rules.

9. A suitable anchor and rode shall be carried during racing.

10. Owner must be a member in good standing of the All Catalina Built 25 Class Association.

11. The red Capri insignia is required on both sides of the mainsail per Article II-D.

ARTICLE II

RESTRICTIONS AND PERMITTED ALTERATIONS

These are closed rules; alterations from the original manufactured boat not expressly allowed here shall not be considered legal. Any yacht modified or altered for the express purpose of substantially changing weight, trim, or sailing characteristics of the Capri 25 from the builder supplied yacht, shall be ineligible for one design racing.

The variables listed herein are intended to accommodate personal preference in hardware selection, sail handling technique, crew comfort and safety gear while maintaining safe and affordable one design racing with equivalent speed potential and sailing characteristics.

A. Stated Restrictions

1. The use of boat lifts or dry sailing is not permitted. Boats may be removed from the water during the season for repairs, off-lake regattas, sailing and extended storage.

2. Holes drilled in the hull for the purpose of cleaning the keel are not allowed.

3. No additional permanent ballast shall be added.

4. Keel and rudder profile may not be altered from the original dimensions as stated in Article II-D.3, and no ballast shall be added to an altered keel or rudder.

5. No hydraulics of any kind shall be permitted.

B. Permitted Alterations

1. Location and placement of deck hardware may be altered as desired.

2. The hull, rudder, and keel may be faired to provide a smooth and consistent surface.

3. The keel and rudder thickness may be altered to minimum and maximum limit allowed by Article II-D.3.

4. Length of forestay and backstay may be changed.

5. Additional hardware alterations may include lengths and positions of tracks, infinitely adjustable genoa lead cars, winch size to 40, self tailing winches, unlimited vang purchase and boom lift, unlimited main outhaul purchase, unlimited purchase on backstay adjustment, jib cunninghams, windward sheeting cars, two speed mainsheet systems, ball bearing cam cleats and curve radius mainsheet track. Instruments include wind anemometer and direction, depth, speed, compass, GPS units and computers. Forestays may be altered for installation of headfoils or hank system.

6. Cushions may be removed if a designated weight replaces them. The weights and their position are indicated in the drawing below.

A 23 lb weight must be attached in the V- Berth for the removal of the V-Berth cushions and a 12 lb weight must be placed underneath both the port and starboard settees if the aft cushions are removed.

C. One Design Class Racing Sails

1. All one design racing sail measurements, specifications and dimensions must be within the tolerances shown in Article II-D. All sails must be pulled sufficiently taut to remove wrinkles. All measurements are to be made from the projected edges (or outside edge of the boltrope) of the sail to specifications stated in Article II-D. Mainsail mid and upper ¼ girths are measured from the respective points between the projected head and clew to the nearest point of the luff. All racing sails must be measured and registered with the Racing Committee before racing use.

2. In an effort to make racing in the Capri 25 One Design Class affordable each yacht in the fleet is allotted one brand new sail per racing season. A brand new sail is a sail that has been measured, approved and used within that racing season. Any new boats to the fleet will be allowed five new sails total for the first two years; after two years that boat shall be allowed one brand new sail per racing season. (If a new boat does not use their allowed five new sails within the first two years then in year three that boat will be allowed three brand new sails). All sail allotments per boat can be carried from year to year. This provision is retroactive from 1996.

Examples of sail allotments for new boat ownership:
New Boat Year (Allotment / Purchase)
1 2 3
A 5 / 0 5 / 0 3 / ?
B 5 / 3 2 / 2 1 / ?
C 5 / 3 2 / 1 1 / ?
D 5 / 1 4 / 0 2 / ?
E 5 / 1 4 / 1 1 / ?

There is no buying limit on the use of used sails. A used sail is defined as any sail purchased for $500 or less.

Exceptions to this rule for extenuating circumstances (i.e.. dismasting and extensive sail damage will be addressed by petitioning the Racing Committee for approval.

3. The Racing Committee reserves the right to ban prohibitively expensive sails or sail materials. A ban will be considered if a complete sail is double the cost of a similar sized cross-cut cruising dacron sail from the same manufacturer.

4. A total of eight sails can be registered for a season for the purposes of racing in the Capri 25 One Design Class. This includes: 2 Mains, 2 Spinnakers, and 4 Headsails (Jibs and Genoas). These racing sails need to be listed on the Sail Registration Form. Yachts must own and only use their own racing inventory. Racing sails will be physically marked as such by the Racing Committee. Sails used exclusively for cruising are not considered part of the racing inventory.

D. Measurements

1. Sail Dimensions

a. Main Sail
Max Leach 28.5’
Max Midgirth 6.17’
Max U-1/4 girth 3.61’
Foot 9.50’
Luff 26.5 ‘
b.

c. Max Jib
Max Luff 31.0’
Max L.P. 15.154’
d.

e. Spinnaker
Maximum Minimum
Luff 30.65’ 30.15’
Girth 17.69’ 16.69’
Foot 17.69’ 16.69’
Weight .6oz

f.

2. Note: All sail measurements shall use ORC (Off-shore Racing Requirement) method of measuring sails.

3.

4. Spinnaker pole maximum is 9.83'

5. Keel and Rudder

KEEL MIN MAX RUDDER MIN MAX
Transom Corner to MPD 132 1/4 133 3/4 Trailing Edge (top to Bottom) 36 1/8 36 3/8
Bottom of Keel to MPB 34 1/2 35 Trailing Edge (hull to bottom) 36 5/16 37 1/8
STATION
ONE Chord Length 33 3/4 34 1/2 STATION
THREE Chord Length 19 3/16 19 1/2
Section Thickness 4 13/16 --- Section Thickness 2 7/16 ---
STATION
TWO Chord Length 19 1/4 19 13/16 STATION
FOUR Chord Length 12 1/4 12 9/16
Section Thickness 2 3/16 --- Section Thickness 1 5/16 ---
Trailing Edge Thickness 7/32 --- Trailing Edge Thickness 5/32 ---

E. Note: All measurements in inches and to the nearest 1/16 inch, except for Trailing Edge Thickness to 1/32 inch.

J.B. Manley s/v Sea Trac Allied Seawind II #65
DPO s/v Antares Catalina 25 #4849
Association Treasurer 2002 - 2006
Association Bookkeeper 2002 - 2008
Association Quartermaster 2004 - 2008

Edited by - Sea Trac on 08/05/2005 20:50:38

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2005 : 18:10:42

Hi J.B.

First, I'd like to thank you, the rest of our officers, and anyone else who helped with this latest version of our constitution and by-laws. IMO being an officer involves more "cold pricklies" than "warm fuzzies," and my hat is off to y'all for working hard to make this Association a success.

I'm wondering if this might be the time to modify how we pay our dues. Once again, I find myself wondering when my dues are payable, whether or not I'm up-to-date, etc. It seems to me that it would be much easier for our membership and the Treasurer if our annual dues were always due on January 1st of each new year. For new members who join in any month besides January, we can simply prorate the dues for the rest of the calendar year, rounded to a sensible number. For example, if the annual dues remain at $20 per year, we could simply charge a monthly prorated amount of $2 per month, not to exceed $20.

What do y'all think about this idea? Am I the only one who can't seem to keep this straight?

Edited by - Buzz Maring on 08/01/2005 18:11:33

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2005 : 18:27:44

Glad to see the Capri included of course. Hope this is agreable to the majority of members.

This one certainly startled me, I can't imagine why you would do this:
2. Holes drilled in the hull for the purpose of cleaning the keel are not allowed.

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2005 : 18:35:24

I agree with the recommendation that Buzz made.
I, however, don't understand the thinking behind the nationals rotation. Seems unfair to me to have the nationals every other year in the central/mountain zone and only once every four years in the east and west. I favor a simple rotation from East to Central/Mountain to West and then back to the East with the stipulation that if there were no bids from clubs from the designated area that other clubs from around the country would then be able to apply to host them without effecting the rotation.

I sincerely appreciate the officers efforts to improve our bylaws! Thanks!

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2005 : 19:36:48

Buzz - Good suggestion, but the primary driver of the current system is each Member's Mainsheet Magazine subscription. When you pay your dues, you are entitled to the next four quarterly publications. To effect your recommendation would require a substantial pro rata accounting. In truth, the process is not very onerous and is handled professionally and diligently by our database management firm, Nanosec. Nanosec also manages the membership databases of most the other Catalina Class Associations.

Rick - I can't either, so I left it in for the time being. Hopefully, Capri owners and die-hard racers will enlighten the rest of us.

Ray - Our thoughts regarding the rotation are that "doubling-up" on the Central/Mountain location gives the absolute greatest number of sailors a chance to participate. We originally considered an East/Central/West/East rotation, but realized that configuration theoritically disenfranchised half the country two-thirds of the time. The East/Central/West/Central/East rotation theoritically only disenfranchises half the country fifty percent of the time. Or something like that, anyway. ;-)

Of course, this is your (the Members') Association, so make your voices heard. Or forever hold your peace. Or is that, forever hold your piece?

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2005 : 23:37:07

JB

It makes sense that a location more central in our country would encourage more participation but if that were the case the nationals at Lake Cheney would have attracted a huge turnout. Can't get more central then Kansas. The reality is that most of these "nationals" are actually regional events attracting the majority of sailors from the immeadiate area. To trailer our boats more then a few hundred miles is too big a chore for most of us. Because I'm on the west coast, locating 50% of the events in central/mountain and 25% of the events in the East means that 75% of the time I have zero chance of attending.

From my perspective the goal of having a "nationals" event in an area is to promote racing which will also promote improved seamanship among our members. We need to try to locate these events in areas where we know there is a large enough population of c25/250/ and capri 25 owners to have a large turnout. Lets continue to hold the nationals but also move them from region to region in a fair way.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 00:08:02

Ray, I believe you have correctly identified the reality of trailering a Catalina 25. I seriously doubt that my friend Derek will haul his boat anywhere again, (correct me if I am wrong Derek).
An interesting side bar however is the fact that there are at least 100 25s within 150 miles of Cheney and only one from that radius came, only half of my own club's boats registered and none from the lake across town registered.Local density is probably the secret to success but it is sure no guaranty.
It will be interesting to see how our olive branch is treated by the Capri world, frankly the Capri 25 may be the future of our Nationals.
As for the current schedule, it is unsaid but hoped that the time in the central US will bounce from the North to the South which really does cover the country in a fair way.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 08/02/2005 00:09:34

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 07:56:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by existentialsailor
 Glad to see the Capri included of course. Hope this is agreable to the majority of members.

This one certainly startled me, I can't imagine why you would do this:
2. Holes drilled in the hull for the purpose of cleaning the keel are not allowed.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Rick -

Being around sailing for some time, and seeing some real strict one design fleet rules I can only surmise that some guy (or lady) somewhere drilled some sort of hole in some way to clean his keel and was successful racing.

I then did a google search on (drill holes in hull to clean keel sailing racing) and the first thing that came up was the capri class....

Here is the page
http://www.wyc.org/capri25/tips.htm

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 09:22:06

I agree that trailering a C25 (especially a fixed keel) is a definite pain...and at 9.5 miles per gallon, pretty expensive! Frank you are correct,I doubt that we will ever do it again.
I also think that a lot of the problem with attendance at our Nationals is that too few of us are racers - witness Frank's comments about local boats not registering. When I was interested in making a bid for Canyon Lake as the site for the Nationals, I e-mailed the Commodore of every yacht club in Texas to get some idea of the amount of interest - I received word from 4 "possible attendees". Of the myriad C25's on our lake, I am the only one that races...and no, I don't know the answer...!

However, I do like the new constitution that our officers have painstakingly assembled. Well done y'all!
Derek

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 12:27:04

A. Stated Restrictions

1. The use of boat lifts or dry sailing is not permitted. Boats may be removed from the water during the season for repairs, off-lake regattas, sailing and extended storage.

I think that this rule applies to WYC, at Windycrest here in Oklahoma we have 2 Capri 25's already on a Hydrohoist, and I just bought a Hydrohoist 4 months ago, I am now waiting on a slip for it to go into. Can this rule be modified or taken out of the Bi-laws.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 13:39:37

I agree CS. I believe the rule should be rewritten to the following, which the gist of is standard Sailing Instruction verbage.

"Once Launched, a boat racing my not be removed from the water until the conclusion of the regatta without written permission from the race committee." I would then add" Local fleets may choose to modify this ruling as it pertains to their local conditions, length of sailing season or dockage availablity, however for the National Regatta this rule may not be amended."

or something similar to that.

Since you guys are not yet part of our organization currently, the officers made no attempt to correct, change or modify any of your current rules. We felt that since we do not know the boats or the Capri 25 racing history this would be the best approach.

If any of the other Capri folks want to speak up, we can accomodate and change this before the elections.

dw

Edited by - on

wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 14:47:48

OK Guys, After traveling over 7,000 miles this year (so far) to race my C-25, I must say I am inspired to welcome the Capri 25 group. We need more racers. In saying that, I would like to formally ask our officers to put in the By-Laws a section that will establish a "Racing Form" on the home page. I have asked this in the past to let the dedicated racers have their own site where we can manage the task of C-25 racing. With the lag time of posting results and the limited use of the racing site,I feel it is time to make a formal racing forum/council. Not intending any insult to the cruisers of our association, but lets just say that there are racers and there are cruisers and we don't always support each other.

My premiss is to let us racers talk and develop a plan.Next years Nationals in Cleveland will be great, because we will be part of a bigger Race series. This year when I raced in Idaho (2000 mile pull) I was privedliged to race against at least 10 different classes in a fleet of 26 boats, there was also 4 C-25s and that was racing. Frank did an excellent job with this years, but it was heart breaking to see all those beautiful boats left in the marina and we did'nt invite them to play.
I feel that if we as a Catalina 25 racing group could intergrate into larger regattas all over the country and post possible races in everyone areas to attend, we could then use a point system to reward our association members, kinda like the virtual race we do each year. there are hundred of ways to promote our boats and race them, but we need to organize.

One of the first questions I would like see addressed is can we remove the pulpit and life lines from our c-25'S? Many classes like J-24, Santana 22-24 can remove theirs. This is a racing question and I would not want to here the true cruisers answer because I Know ( and so be it) cruiser worry about safety. So do racers, but in a different way.

So Please I make a motion to develop a true RACING Body/forum in the new By-Laws.

Bill Meinert

Edited by - on

Steve Meyer
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Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 15:42:39

Bill makes a great suggestion. If we are trying to increase interest in racing then we should begin by starting a racing forum. I'm not computer savvy but I don't thing that there is a big technical hurdle. The racing forum will generate excitement for racing as well as inform the membership of the many opportunities to race their boats close to home, often on their own lake! The forum could post Notice of Regatta's, Results, Crew wanted or available. The trash talk alone would be worth the read :)
In short, I second Bill's Motion.
I would also like to thank all of the officers for their hard work putting this togehter.

Edited by - on

Champipple
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Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 16:25:10

Bill –

The web site is a service that the association offers, it is not a mandatory thing and isn’t included in our bylaws as such. A racing forum to that end need not be indicated in the By-Laws. While we are trying to increase interest in our boats, I fear that splitting the group even further might be a detriment.

When we moved over to these Snitz forums a few years back, we created the separate C-25 forum and a separate c-250 forum I lost a lot of contact with Arlyn and other sailors just because they don’t always come over to the 25 side and I don’t go over to the 250 side. I'd hate to see that happen in this instance. We would also have an issue of equal treatment of Cruisers to address. They might like their own forum too.

Segregation might not be the best avenue. I’d rather have the 25/250/Capri forums be technical boat specific and have the General Forum be subtitled Racing, Cruising and just plain Sailing. While I love your enthusiasm about racing, I’d love for you to share it among racers and non racers alike. There might be a few lurkers that learn something new about racing.
You mention that Cruisers and Racers sometimes just don’t agree. Maybe having the vehicle to explain, teach and show we could both learn something? I’ve learned many a thing from cruisers.

With regard to rolling our regattas into others --->I am also in favor integrating our regatta into others, if I wasn’t I wouldn’t have submitted a bid to bring it to Cleveland. But this is really a matter of us as members registering to participate in other regattas. It is also about us as members advertising all of our regattas to each other on the web. Or us as individual members creating a Regional event within an already occurring regatta. (maybe as an incentive that race winner gets a paid entry to the nationals and some gas money??) I’d be ecstatic to see 4 or 5 regional events occurring in areas where the nationals aren’t (on a different weekend of course)

Integration into bigger fleets is going to require some changes. In Cleveland next year, while there is a good chance that we may compete with all boats or some of the boats that are not C-25’s, 250’s or Capri’s (based on turnout, scored separate from nationals) However, we have a number of issues to resolve if we want to be a fully integrate-able PHRF Fleet. One design is really out of the question because we are no where near, ready to be near, or will ever be near a true one design racing fleet. I won’t go into all of the factors – but a big one is our embracing those who do not sail with a spinnaker. In about 8 out of every 10 PHRF fleets around the country, the Jammers race in one group and the Spins race in another. Our boats are great to race, but they are by no means great racers.

Duane

Ps – I think you meant J-22. J-24’s have what would be considered relatively strict lifeline rules whereas they are optional on the 22.

Edited by - Champipple on 08/02/2005 16:27:09

britinusa
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Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 21:49:43

The efforts put in by the Association Officers is one that will ensure the continued longevity of this valuable resource for Catalina 25' owners.

Thanks for your work!

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cathluk
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Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 09:02:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff

Segregation might not be the best avenue. I’d rather have the 25/250/Capri forums be technical boat specific and have the General Forum be subtitled Racing, Cruising and just plain Sailing. While I love your enthusiasm about racing, I’d love for you to share it among racers and non racers alike. There might be a few lurkers that learn something new about racing.
You mention that Cruisers and Racers sometimes just don’t agree. Maybe having the vehicle to explain, teach and show we could both learn something? I’ve learned many a thing from cruisers.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree with Duane on this one. The Capri 25 needs its own boat-specific forum, but I think the racers & cruisers can learn a lot from each other. The general forum is a great place for everything except model specific questions.

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existentialsailor
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Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 09:55:19

5. Additional hardware alterations may include lengths and positions of tracks, infinitely adjustable genoa lead cars, winch size to 40, self tailing winches, unlimited vang purchase and boom lift, unlimited main outhaul purchase, unlimited purchase on backstay adjustment, jib cunninghams, windward sheeting cars, two speed mainsheet systems, ball bearing cam cleats and curve radius mainsheet track. Instruments include wind anemometer and direction, depth, speed, compass, GPS units and computers. Forestays may be altered for installation of headfoils or hank system.

Does this mean roller furlers are out of the question?
Does this mean fishfinders or chartplotters are disallowed?
I also see no mention of a radio, or is that a moot point?

Edited by - on

Ericson33
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Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 11:42:28

Rick, I don't think that the roller Furler would be allowed in a One Design race. The rules and Bi-Laws are taken from WYC, They have a very strict OD Class. I know that if I use my Furler in the Series races here at Windycrest, then points are deducted from my Score. I have chosen to take the drum off of the boat for the races, and reinstall it for when I just want to cruse around. As far as the Chartplotters, radios, and other electronic devices, you can have them on the boat but may have to have them turned off. When we race down here you cant even have your VHF turned on and listen in to the RC. Most all of these rules are a guide for us (outside of WYC) to follow. But, IF in the future Windycrest decides to hold a National regatta for the Catalina Built 25 class, I want to make sure that the boats that are already here are going to comply. We know have 7 Catalina Capri 25's, and I would say around 10 to 12 Catalina 25's or 250's. When you take this into account we could have a really well planned out regatta. There is no Catalina 25 fleet here anymore at Windycrest, only 3 of the Capri 25's race, and I have never seen a Catalina 25 or 250 out of their slip. I have all of the Capri 25 members interested in joining up, and I am starting to work on the Catalina 25,250's. We also have what is called a Silver Fleet, that has their own starts, and is basic Jib and Main class. There are only 2 to 4 boats that sail in this class, and it would be great to see it grow.

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 11:55:08

CS -

I'm surprised that your not allowed to monitor the race committee channel on the VHF. Especially since in the past 5 years or so US Sailing and race committees in general have made a huge effort to communicate and keep racers apprised of what is going on. This is especially prevalent in your larger regattas (key west, charleston etc) As a soon to be PRO (principal race officer) I can say that this has become the norm and is taught in the lectures... I would recommend that all racers coming to nationals have a radio onboard to monitor the race committee.

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Frank Hopper
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Pitcairn Island
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Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 12:05:20

We announced the channel to monitor at our skipper's meeting at the 05 nationals. How can helping all racers sail on an even field not be a good thing? Hmmm, connectivity.

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John G-
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Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 12:57:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 CS -

I'm surprised that your not allowed to monitor the race committee channel on the VHF. Especially since in the past 5 years or so US Sailing and race committees in general have made a huge effort to communicate and keep racers apprised of what is going on. This is especially prevalent in your larger regattas (key west, charleston etc) As a soon to be PRO (principal race officer) I can say that this has become the norm and is taught in the lectures... I would recommend that all racers coming to nationals have a radio onboard to monitor the race committee.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
This is from the [url="http://www.wyc.org/about-SailingInstructions.htm"] WYC Sailing Instructions; [/url]

 
“19. COMMUNICATIONS
A boat shall neither make nor receive VHF radio transmissions while racing, except that a boat may receive VHF weather service transmissions. Radio communications of an emergency nature are permitted. Members of the race committee may contact the committee boat at any time. Prior to racing there may be periodic hails from the Race Committee on VHF Channel 68.”

 It seems these rules are peculiar to the WYC. Their fleet includes Sonar’s and Ensigns that don’t normally have radios other than hand helds.
It could be that they feel hearing the committee discuss a course change could give a competitor an edge over some one without a radio near by.
WYC seems to be much more hard core about racing than most of the C25/C250 racing so I don’t think the association should have to meet all their standards.
This is from the [url="http://www.wyc.org/about.htm"] WYC mission statement; [/url]

 
“Club Mission Statement
The foremost purpose of the Wayzata Yacht Club is the promotion of sailboat racing competition.”

 
Maybe their racing rules should not be incorporated into the bylaws until the “trial period” is over and the association has seen how this works at a regatta or two with the combined boats. Then a set of rules could be formulated that make for an "All Catalina Built Class Association" (Boy that's a mouthfull

) Regatta.

Oh, It's interesting that the officers found it important to add the following to the bylaws at this time'

"B. Staff members serve at the discretion of the Officers and may be removed by a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B)."

It was never needed before. Why now?

Underlined words are a HOT link.

Edited by - John G- on 08/07/2005 23:37:53

Champipple
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Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 13:30:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Maybe their racing rules should not be incorporated into the bylaws until the “trial period” is over and the association has seen how this works at a regatta or two with the combined boats. Then a set of rules could be formulated that make for an "All Catalina Built Class Association" (Boy that's a mouthfull ) Regatta.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That is similar to the approach we are taking. I can't speak for the Capri class, but if I was a one design sailor, I'd want rules just for me and not adapted to others in a larger grouping. That is the nature of one design. Once a Capri measurer is added (provided everything passes) we will be able to address these rules and adapt them. If we bring them in, we will need to have a set of rules for them to start.

dw

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wmeinert@kconline.com
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Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 20:57:31

Ok Here we go!!! If we are going to accept the Capri 25 Rules, to make things even we are going to have to modify ours. I like the fact that they can take out their cushions and have strict HP requirements for motors, We on the other hand don't even measure most of the important stuff on our boats like our sails, I do believe at least one or two of the National racers didn't even have their anchors on board. And I know that at least one boat had a 4hp motor instead of the "normal" 9.9 that is normally required to push our boat safely in heavy winds and seas. We as the C-25 community will have to tighten a few things up if we really want a racing platform at the Nationals, or have two serperate fleets like the C-22's do. And I know what your reply will be too! This is why I feel we need a racing forum to help establish guidelines. With the current boat on boat handcap system that most clubs are now using for races, it makes sinqronizing all our differences a little easier. For the first time this year we had an over all winer! Boat on Boat rules applied. It's getting alot easier than most people think. And with some fine tunning we can make it better for all. But I hate to think that for some reason anyone is thinking we are not a great class to have as racers.

Bill Meinert

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Frank Hopper
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Pitcairn Island
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Response Posted - 08/04/2005 : 01:18:09

Bill I apologize that I did not announce that the fellow with the little motor had added ballast to his boat to make up the weight difference, in fact he added some extra just to be above board. He is a very rules conscious fellow and asked me if that was the right way to handle his little motor issue and I told him it was a good solution. In my experience adding weight in those situations is appropriate. He will be in Cleveland for 06 and I know you will be ready for him.

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Steve Meyer
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Response Posted - 08/04/2005 : 10:09:18

Bill,
I also have a 4hp motor. I purchased it this year. The specs indicate that it weighs 59 pounds without fuel. below is the rule we raced under at Wichita.
I.
REQUIRED SAFETY EQUIPMENT
General - Every yacht while racing shall have aboard the following:
1.
An operable outboard motor whose combined weight with associated fuel tank must weigh at least 40 pounds. Should this weight limitation not be met, then ballast must be added to meet the above weight requirement. Engine must be mounted and ready to use (1985). No minimum horsepower requirement for outboard motor (1993).

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Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 08/04/2005 : 11:10:31

Could it be explained why regular membership is proposed to no longer require owning a C25, 250, or Capri 25?

While I'm basically an inclusive guy and have always been pleased that we've had associate memberships... I kinda like the protectiveness of an officer's interest being primarily in our class boats.

Unless a change is made or a very good argument made otherwise... I'd have to vote no on this new constitution for that reason.

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