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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Suzuki 9.9

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Aldo
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/03/2005 : 12:36:19

I asked about this motor in one of my responses to a topic that is still open, but I haven't gotten a response to this issue. Is a Suzuki 9.9, 4 stroke an OK motor for a C-25? I will be looking at a C-25 soon, and want to know if anyone has this motor on their C-25, and if they are happy with it. Specifically, does it have good thrust, fuel economy, and is it reliable? I know that it's not one of the lighter 4 strokes around, but I guess you can't have everything exactly the way that you want it.

Also, the boat that I plan on looking at has inboard controls, but I don't know for sure that this motor is made to accept the cables for the inboard controls. About how much should I expect to spend to convert the motor to run with the inboard controls, if the motor isn't ready to accept the cables? 

Also, when a motor is run with inboard controls, are the outboard controls still available, or do they have to be removed? 

On my C-22, sometimes when I am in a tight space, I rotate the motor to maneuver the boat better. Can this be done on a C-25 too? (I assume that it can).

Thanks, Aldo

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2005 : 14:44:01

Hi Aldo,

Many of your questions can be answered by going to www.online outboards,com. I recently bought their Nissan 9.8 4 stroke, extralong shaft electric start motor. I was replacing a '93 Johnson sailmaster 9.9 2 stroke weighing 2 pounds more than the Nissan.
If you're into remote controls for the Nissan/Tohatsu are available

I can't tell you much about the Nissan having had it only three weeks. I have 7 hours on it so far an I'm adjusting to its features. On a two hour low speed run I used 3/4 gallon of fuel. I don't know what the fuel consumption will be on a higher speed run, Ill not be able to try that until breakin is completed @ 10 hours.

Val on Calista # 3936

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2005 : 17:38:10

Hi Aldo,
I remember you from back in my C22 days. You will not be sorry for buying a Catalina 25. I like mine lots more than my 22.
I cannot speak for the Suzuki, or whether or not you can adapt for inboard controls.
However, I do like to be able to rotate my Honda outboard. It gives you extra control, just like on the 22.
9.9 hp is plenty. I think that the most important thing is shaft length. My honda has an extra long shaft, I think it's 28". Good if you are in heavy seas, like when I was in 6 foot seas last May coming back from Dry Tortugas.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2005 : 18:35:07

Hi Aldo,

A 9.9hp outboard, whether a 2 or 4 stroke, is about the most engine you would want to put on a C25 (I currently use an 8hp and it has proven to be more than adequate). Anything more than that, you would probably just be wasting hp, weight, and $$$.

As for using the tiller and outboard, every single time I leave the slip, I use both because doing so greatly improves manueverability which comes in handy in tight quarters.

As for your questions regarding the Suzuki outboard, I can't answer that.

Does the C25 you're looking at have a Suzuki 9.9?

Edited by - dlucier on 11/03/2005 18:36:19

Aldo
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2005 : 12:50:34

Val, Frank, and Don: Thanks for your replies.

Val: Thanks for the link to the Online outboards web site. I'll keep that in my files for now.

Frank: Thanks for your encouragement. I do have to admit that sometimes I wonder what I am doing. We have had our C-22 for 25 years, and finally have it about the way that we want it. I do know the boat inside and out. We have thoroughly enjoyed it, and I enjoy it now as much as ever, but when we cruise it on the Chesapeake in the summer with one or two of our sons, it is very full. We really could use more room.

Don: Thanks for your reply too. Yes, my question was specifically about a Suzuki motor that was with a C-25 that we had planned on looking at this weekend. But this morning I received an e-mail message that said that the boat had been sold to someone who had previously looked at it. So now we're back to looking for another C-25, Swing Keel, with a trailer.

Aldo

While I'm here I might as well ask another question that has been on my mind. On my C-22, I have a '79 Johnson 6 HP 2 stroke motor. What I don't like about it is that it consumes too much fuel. It's not the cost of the fuel that bothers me as much as the volume of fuel that we sometimes have to carry. Sometimes we will sail with C-22 Fleet 10 out of Annapolis MD. We keep our boat in Middle River, so sometimes we end up motoring our boat for 35 miles to meet-up with them, if there is no wind. This consumes about 6 gallons of fuel or more, so I usually carry about 12 gallons of fuel when we are planning to move the boat this distance. That's a lot of weight and room on a C-22. The only thing that I can say might be wrong with my motor is that I haven't had a thermostat in it for over 20 years. The one that was originally in the motor was so small and got stuck shut, so I removed it when someone told me that it wasn't necessary. Another thing that I did was put a shallower pitch prop onto the motor, mainly to increase the thrust and power for moving into and out of the slip. This motor still has very poor thrust in reverse. Do any of you have any thoughts on why my fuel mileage could be so poor? I do usually run the motor wide open, or nearly wide open. Checking with the GPS, it does seem that the boat increases in speed until the throttle hits the stop, so I don't think that I am trying to push the boat beyond its hull speed. Also, the timing is not adjustable on my motor, since it is capacitive discharge ignition.

Thanks for any suggestions, Aldo

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2005 : 13:39:56

... Another thing that I did was put a shallower pitch prop onto the motor, mainly to increase the thrust and power for moving into and out of the slip. This motor still has very poor thrust in reverse. Do any of you have any thoughts on why my fuel mileage could be so poor? - Aldo 

Hi Aldo,

I'm no expert, but I think you answered your own question. When you changed to a shallower pitched prop, it was like keeping your transmission in low gear instead of being able to shift into "drive." The only advantage the shallow pitch prop gives you is when you manuever at low speed ... the rest of the time the higher rpm's and lower speed cost you gas.

'Hope you find the perfect C-25 ... good luck!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2005 : 14:12:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Buzz Maring
 ... Another thing that I did was put a shallower pitch prop onto the motor, mainly to increase the thrust and power for moving into and out of the slip. This motor still has very poor thrust in reverse. Do any of you have any thoughts on why my fuel mileage could be so poor? - Aldo 

Hi Aldo,

I'm no expert, but I think you answered your own question. When you changed to a shallower pitched prop, it was like keeping your transmission in low gear instead of being able to shift into "drive." The only advantage the shallow pitch prop gives you is when you manuever at low speed ... the rest of the time the higher rpm's and lower speed cost you gas.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Buzz hit the nail on the head!

A couple of seasons ago I also experimented with a lower pitch/larger diameter prop expecting increased manueverability and performance, but ended up with poor fuel economy, lower top speed, and no noticable improvement of the higher thrust prop around the docks. The prop experiment ended after two months when I put the original prop back on.

As Buzz alluded to, the high thrust prop might be great for the 10 or 15 seconds when coming into the dock, but when motoring for 6 or 7 hours, it can really put a hurt on fuel economy. By changing back to the original prop, I chose performance over the 6 hours rather than performance over 10 seconds.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2005 : 15:42:57

Aldo,
When you do find yourself a C25, and if you need a new motor, a 4 stroke will definitely increase your mileage.
check out the old For sale ads on our website. See if Mike Tiffe still has his 89 wing keel for sale in Charleston. But of course I'm biased towards the wing keel versions. That would be a perfect boat for the Chesapeake.
The biggest things I like about a 25 over the 22 is having a small dedicated galley area, and a sit down head area.
make sure you check out our technical area and see the articles on buying a C25.
You will find the folks here just as helpful as the C22 folks, lots of us used to own a 22

Edited by - on

Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2005 : 17:15:01

Hi, I have a 9.9hp Yamaha that runs beautifully! I brought it 90+ miles over Lake Michigan to Chicago running on the motor and it burned about 1 gallon per hour on a hi throttle in 3-5 foot sea's.

I have mixed feelings about my in board controlls. They are convenient but add a layer complexity that i'm not sure is worth it yet. For example, when i needed to replace my motor mount disconnecting the cables took some time. Additionally, I had a problem with the throttle and shifter linkage due to vibration which happened at an inconvenient time. (Murphy's Law)

If I was starting over I would probably want the controlls at the motor. This would also make it easier when I take the motor off in the winter to store in my heated garage.

Edited by - on

Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2005 : 23:28:37

From experience, I can tell you that the Suzuki 9.9 HP motor is NOT a good motor for our boats. I have one on my boat and I plan to replace it soon. It's what the boat came with when I bought it.

First of all, it's a full 20 lbs. heavier than the Nissan, which I covet. This motor is a BEAR! I dread having to put it in and out of the water. I think it comes in at about 120 lbs. It's a monster.

Second of all. It only comes in a 20" long shaft ( I believe). I REALLY covet the deeper, XL 25" shafts (Also pointing to Nissan).

Don't get me wrong, the Suzuki is a good motor. It's reliable, the electric start is great, the alternator works fine, it's nice and powerful. However, for the reasons mentioned above, I would not endorse it for our purposes.

I plan on getting a Nissan this off season . . .

Edited by - on

Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2005 : 23:28:38

Edited by - on

Aldo
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2005 : 12:33:42

Rich: Thanks for your response. Someone else got the boat that we were looking at that had the Suzuki motor on it. I don't feel bad about that anymore, after reading your reply. It would be tough for me to justify getting a new motor if I already had one that worked, even though I didn't like certain things about it. That's where I am currently with the motor on my C-22. I don't like the fact that it's a 2 stroke, but I had it serviced a few years ago (when I was away on business), and the mechanic told my wife that it could "last forever".

Not everyone is as straight forward as you are. I have a friend who never seems to state the Bad along with the Good. He built a house and his builder "was just wonderful", and he recommended him to me. This builder talked him into a heating system that didn't properly heat his house, that my friend had to replace, and then he had to rip all the siding off one side of his house to correct leaks. I didn't use his builder, but it just makes me crazy when someone doesn't point out the Bad along with the Good.

Thanks again for your response, Aldo

Edited by - on

cdreamonly
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2005 : 21:20:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jmurfy
 Hi, I have a 9.9hp Yamaha that runs beautifully! I brought it 90+ miles over Lake Michigan to Chicago running on the motor and it burned about 1 gallon per hour on a hi throttle in 3-5 foot sea's.

I have mixed feelings about my in board controlls. They are convenient but add a layer complexity that i'm not sure is worth it yet. For example, when i needed to replace my motor mount disconnecting the cables took some time. Additionally, I had a problem with the throttle and shifter linkage due to vibration which happened at an inconvenient time. (Murphy's Law)

If I was starting over I would probably want the controlls at the motor. This would also make it easier when I take the motor off in the winter to store in my heated garage.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree with your thoughts about the inboard controls. I have an evinrude motor on my boat with the controls mounted in the cockpit and it seems like I am always bumping it. I ran across an ad for tiller mounted controls (www.powertiller.com) which seems like a good idea although it is rather expensive. Their site has a product demo where they demo it on a catalina 25. If I was starting over (or if I get irritated(sic) enough with my current set-up) I would be tempted to get it.

Edited by - on

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