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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

How much abuse can a C25 take?

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Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/15/2005 : 23:07:36

Yesterday I tried to drive my boat (with its outboard) to its storage facility 12 miles south of downtown Chicago on Lake Michigan. I'm a new sailor and hit some heavy sea's when I got out of the harbor. I would estimate 5 to 7 ft waves with a 20 to 25 knot wind.The boat was getting slapped around pretty well. Since I didnt have the hatch boards in and didnt want to leave the tiller I slowly turned back into the harbor and will try again in the next few days. My question is how much abuse can the hull take if I have the hatchboards in to prevent taking on water in the cabin? I have to say it was exhilarating but I dont want to get into trouble.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 08:09:05

The conditions that you describe are challenging for a C25, but not so much because the hull can't take the abuse, but because a small, low powered, displacement boat is very hard to control in those conditions. As the wind strength increases, it becomes increasingly difficult for a small engine to keep the bow of the boat pointed into the wind. Big, steep waves are generated by strong winds, and a steep wave can smack the bow hard enough to knock the bow off the wind, and the motor might not be powerful enough to overcome the force of the wind against the hull, and to push the bow back to windward. The size and steepness of the waves can also cause the motor to cavitate (raise the prop out of the water). That further reduces the effective power of the motor.

From now on it'll be cold, but there will still be days when the wind and seas are calm enough to make the trip. Pick a calm, sunny day, dress very warmly and you should probably wear a ski mask, because it'll take awhile to cover 12 miles, and take along a cellphone in case you run into trouble. If you really get stuck, you can always call Tow Boat US or a similar service. It's expensive, but it's better than drifting in the cold all night.

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 10:48:47

Even motoring into heavy seas can produce another unhappy event, the swamping of your outboard. This has happened to me several times. when I'm in clean North Channel or Lake superior water I can usually re start after a few minutes. If it happens in shallow dirty water the motor will require a trip to the shop for a carberator cleaning.
As steve mentioned, November is not a good time to be out on any of the Great Lakes. look up the 1913 storm that sank or stranded about 50 freighters and cost the lives of over 200 hands, or the 10 November storm of 1975 that brought the end of the Edmond Fitzgerald. Both storms followed several days of unusually warm calm weather. Bring a hot thermos of soup, not coffee. I went storming once in the North Channel after a hearty breakfast with a lot of coffee. When I was caught out in 7-10 footers I could not leave the helm and having to pee very badly, I ended up dropping my stormies and relieved myself on the cockpit floor. The next wave that came over the bow sent about 20/30 gallons through the cockpit making a most effective flush. If the weather is calm you should be able to cover 12 miles in about 3 hours. Do you have a crew available? It might be better to have an extra set of hands.

Good Luck settling your boat for the winter,

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Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 10:57:07

If the wind isn't directly on your nose what about sailing? Reefed main and storm jib (or reduced genoa) would provide a much more comfortable ride. I've always found that this boat has a much better balanced ride when under sailpower. Down here in Florida we, quite often, have the opportunity to sail in similar conditions. A few months ago we were out in 5 ft. seas with wind well over 20 kts. having a great ride when our rudder snapped off

. We motored back to the marina which proved to be a very uncomfortable ride to say the least.

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 12:51:25

Don's right, why not sail?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 13:09:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Don B
 If the wind isn't directly on your nose what about sailing? Reefed main and storm jib (or reduced genoa) would provide a much more comfortable ride...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John V.
 Don's right, why not sail?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

25kt winds and 7ft waves is more than a handful for the seasoned sailor, but a "new sailor" is probably better off avoiding the situation altogether.

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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 13:10:44

Generally, I've found that our boats can usually take more then the occupants; however, your decision sounds like the right one for your conditions. I suggest picking a better day weather wise, batten down the hatches, dress warmly, & remember that having some sail up can smooth out the ride.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 13:29:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">why not sail?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Sailing requires more knowledge, skill and judgment than motoring. If he sails, he has to be prepared to raise and lower sails (perhaps singlehandedly), and, if the conditions worsen, he has to be able to reef his sails while underway. Jmurfy says he's a new sailor. He might not feel experienced enough to do those things in challenging conditions. If he thinks he can do those things, then sailing would be the better choice. If not, I think the better choice would be to leave the sails down. If Jmurfy can find an experienced sailor to crew for him, as John suggested, that would be a big help.

Motoring isn't as comfortable, but it's much less complicated. He just has to point the boat in the right direction and let the motor push him to his destination.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 13:40:16

I would make sure my rig was tight and my gudgeons were strong. That is a gear buster situation and even though our hulls are strong for a 25 but they make a lousy cork!

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2005 : 00:18:05

I don't think that any of us would suggest that a sail be attempted in the originally described conditions. "Why not sail" would only be prudent in relatively stable light to moderate winds.

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weluvlife
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2005 : 08:06:02

With conditions such as the described, I have trouble keeping the motor in the water, even with a correctly mounted long shaft. The motor would have to be in the water all the time while under plenty of power, just to keep the bow in place.

Personally, I would sail. "Now where did I put that storm sail?" :)

As already mentioned, a new sailor should definately avoid the whole situation. Just wait for better weather.

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Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2005 : 08:14:10

All great advice here. I guess it boils down to the right sail plan based on conditions and the level of experience of the sailor with the safety factors coming into play every time you get underway.

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Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2005 : 16:39:31

Thanks for all the great insight! Although I would prefer to sail I bowed to my lack of experience in these conditions. Incidently it was a night maneuver thereby making visual conditions that much worse and I was single handeling the boat.
I was concerned about the motor dying at the worst moment and being unable to do anything about it do to the conditions.
I ultimately got a nice sunny day with 1-3 ft seas and a 15 knot westerly wind to move the boat. The auto tillar worked great and I was able to move about "My Joy" to enjoy the awesome view of Chicago in the fall. She is now safely parked at a dock in the Calumet river awaiting haul out on Monday.
I'm going to miss the boat for the winter season!

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2005 : 17:48:30

... She is now safely parked at a dock in the Calumet river awaiting haul out on Monday. - Jeff

Well done, Jeff!

I'm glad it worked out OK ... I hope your haul-out goes well ... good luck with that, too. Once she's been put to bed, you can concentrate on having a good Thanksgiving.

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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2005 : 19:34:51

Jeff-

Glad to hear you've got her tucked safely away for the winter.

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2005 : 21:47:06

Jeff's second posting was right on, and reminded me of the old saw: "Before you set out, even on a calm day, imagine what is the worst thing that might happen, and plan for it." Motoring into a strong seaway on a sailboat should always be a last-ditch resort, especially with an outboard. The beauty of sailboats is that they have sails. That does not help you when close to the shore, if the engine fails and you are single handing in a blow. Too mcun to do, too little time. Further out, you can tie down, lie ahull awhile and wait for things to pass. Close inshore, you are stressed lest you become the next wreck. Personally, unless there is NO wind, and I have to get from A to B, I would never venture to leave port under power. If it's too mch wind for sail, it's too much for power. Stay home. That said, with two reefs in the main, and a sliver of a jib, the C25 can easily handle 8'seas and 20-25 knot winds. But you may not want to be on board while she is handling them!

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