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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

O.B. recommendations?

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/29/2005 : 23:53:39

What is recommended as best o.b. for an '01 250? MUST be an electric start.

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 06:46:43

The Nissan-tohatsu are great motors. The do not seem to suffer from the Honda carb isues. Also, the lightest weight for 4-stroke.
The downside is the tilt setup. You must reach around the stbd side of engine to Lock/unlock the enginewhile holding it up. A PITA for sure. They also have rather small props which is most noticeable in reverse.
Cost is around $2000

The real cats meow would be the Mercury. It has a Tohatsu powerhead, integrated throttle/shifter, and can be ordered with the bigfoot lower unit. A little heavier, but has superior tilt features and the larger prop should give much more torque at lower speeds.

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|215570|220180|320449&id=531247

Cost is around $2500.

Which ever engine you get, go for the 25 in shaft.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 09:43:25

I have a Honda 9.9 that is 6 years old. It has performed very well. The electric start is a must. Another must is the extra long shaft. At that time Honda was the only one with an XL shaft. I don't know if that is still true.

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s3tbuell
1st Mate

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47 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 11:29:02

Frank,
What type of sailing do you do? Fair weather? Would you be sailing to Catalina Islands? There has been many a debate on motor size on this forum. Having sailed in the San Francisco area for 34 years, I feel the bigger the better. Also the longest shaft you can get. If the weather turns bad and you are out at sea the motor will want to come out of the water on the larger waves. If I recall, you don't have a bar to cross. Is this correct? The largest motor Catalina Yachts states you can place on a 250 is 15hp. As for Honda's http://www.Honda-marine.com/index.aspx the electric start 9.9 XL weights 117# 12 amp. alt.the 15hp XL weights 136# 12 amp alt.with the electric start and power tilt option. The 15 is not available in a XL with out the power tilt option. So the difference is 19#s other then cost. 19# is well worth the extra 35% more HP. As for fuel consumption more HP does not always mean more fuel. I have found you can depending on the conditions getting the same or better fuel economy. Now this is Honda(can you tell I am a honda guy). Do you own research. Talk to others in your area that you sail. They will know much better what you may come up against. Lake sailing is night and day from ocean sailing. Leaving the safety of the harbor only to return and find a break wave across the harbor mouth..you will want all and more the HP you can get!!!

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Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 15:01:57

I've got a Honda 9.9 for the boat and a Honda 5 for the dingy and I'm happy with both of them. I standardize whenever I can, and I'm always pleasantly surprised when parts will interchange-like when I ran out of gas with the 9.9 and the 5 fuel line snapped right on (but maybe they all do that...)

Anyway, among Honda owners here, there are 8, 9.9, and 15HP owners, and I think they all are happy with their decisions. The "debate" seems to be between 8 and 9.9 motors. Proponents of the 8 say it will get you to hull speed and that's all you need. They say (in general) the 8 is just a rev-limited 9.9, and the prop will cavitate above about 5 grand anyway, so why spend the extra money for the 9.9?

Actually, at least on my '03 motor, the cams are different on the two motors, and that probably just confuses the issue more. Is the 8 cam more "torquey" than the 9.9 to make up for the lack of high end? Or not. Now we're just speculating. I contacted Honda and they didn't know. They sent me a bunch of spec sheets, but nothing definitive that would say one motor is better than the other for our purposes.

I got the 9.9 just to have something in reserve. Say a cylinder goes down in the shipping lane on the way to Catalina or something. Sort of the same feeling as setting two anchors instead of just one, I guess.

And yes, you do have to lean over the motor and reach underneath it to trip the tilt lever, but you don't have to support the motor while you're doing it. You flip the lever, then tilt the motor up (or down) and it just clicks and locks into place. Not too bad.

One thing for sure-get the XL shaft.

Oh, and yes, I'm a Honda guy, too. With 301K miles on my '88 and compression still within factory specs, what else would I be?!

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 16:44:26

I just completed a 140 mile trip with my 2006 Nissan. The trip was a great test of engine combinations as we had 4 boats and very bad conditions. We did a 60 mile leg up the ICW with 20-30 knots on the nose. Waves were choppy and at times were 3-5 feet. I have 25 with Nissan 9.8. Tom P has a 250 with 9.8 Nissan 2 stroke. Ben has a nissan 9.8 4 stroke. John has a 25 with a diesel.

I found that full throttle was needed to reach hull speed when the winds were up. The same was true of Tom P. John was able to run a tad under full throttle. I was satisfied with the power that I had. I can normally get to hull speed at 3600 rpm. Full throttle rpm is 4960.

The nissan is great in all areas except the prop. I will explain my theory.

Honda has 4 bladed prop
10inches diameter x 6.5 pitch prop.

Nissan has 3 blades
8.5 diameter x 6.5 pitch

Mercury bigfoot has 3 blades
10 in diameter x 7 pitch.

My motor replaced a 9.9 sailmaster which had a big 10in prop that had incredible torque(when the engine was running).

Like everything, it is a choice. If you have any kind of docking issues, such as a tight spot or winds/tide, the bigger the prop the better.
Also, dealer support can be an issue. Factor that in as well.

Tom.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 19:49:15

I can get an 8 horse Honda electric, 25" shaft for $2,970.00 including tax and delivery to my boat. All I have to do is punch a hole in the side to lead the cables to the battery. I can fresh water flush the engine at the top without running it.
Anyone have the same engine? Pros and cons, por favor ;-)

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 20:11:45

Seems kind of high to me. Have you checked this site out; http://www.onlineoutboards.com/index.html
You can get a 9.8, 4 stroke, 25", elect, delivered for under $1950.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 20:59:46

ONline OB delivered my Nissan when they promised to.

The honda will have superior thrust, better charging, and is heavier.
Some people have complained about carb problems from water clogging the jets.

Is that worth an extra grand? Up to you.

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 21:55:07

Yamaha! Had a couple of older Hondas and a new Yamaha. LOVED the Yamaha.
Started perfect every time.
Quiet and smooth.
Electric start with a recoil back up outside of the cover.
Flush hookup on the outside.
High thrust
Parts easily available

Check it out

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 00:35:49

I am buying an 8HP Yamaha XLS with electric start, power tilt. Locals tell me this motor is actually more thrust for a sailboat than a Yamaha 9.9. Different "hi-thrust" prop. Whatever. C25 I sailed in Seattle had a Yamaha 8, as did the C250WK here in Portland. Nice motor, started easily, seemed to do the job.

$2504 brand new from dealer, no special discount.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 14:48:14

Kevin, I'm zeroing in on the Yamaha you described, but down here it goes for a couple hundred more than yours. Apparently it has to be flushed both top and bottom which I don't understand. I have 4 choices for an o.b.: Yamaha, Honda, Mercury, or Nissan/Tohatsu. Based on all the pros and cons I might just as well flip a coin. Maybe to save some bucks I should try and locate a pre-owned Yamaha and have it serviced. What say y'all?

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Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 15:27:03

I got my Honda 9.9 at http://www.twimarine.com/ They're in Costa Mesa.

The 5HP came from http://www.redondomarine.com/ in Redondo Beach.

Either one is close enough to you, but I prefer to do business with Redondo Marine (despite the flaky website).

Seems like I got about 10% off on both motors, but you have to ask for it, or have them beat a price, etc.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 17:45:34

The choice of new VS. Used.

It my OPINION that if you are going to be using the boat for more than daysailing, go for new. There are a couple of reasons.

Saltwater OB life is averages about 10 yrs.

New ob can be had for $2000. That gives you 3 yrs of warranty and known history.

Used will likely cost at least $1000. That gives no warranty, no history, and 5-7 years of life left.

Both will cost a couple hundred a year over a lifespan. Now, if you take care of the new motor, It would be possible to get much more life out of the new motor. The used engine will always have an X factor of uncertanty. Not a bad thing, but not what I want many miles from home.

If price is a concern, go for the Tohatsu. It is a jem of a motor that can be had new for the price of a used Honda or Yammy.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 20:11:58

How 'bout a Tohatsu MFS9.8AE3FUL, available at www.tohatsu-outboards.com for $1,949.99. Locally, Tradewinds Inflatables sells the same engine for $2,391.00. Maybe they'll match the online price.
The engine is electric start, 25" shaft, and weighs 81 lbs.

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Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 21:48:42

Couple of quick responses:
1) Power tilt makes it a heavier.
2) If you're moving up to any of the newer 4 strokes plan on buying a new mount with the extra springs. These things are heavy, and the extra help from the springs is nice.
3) You have an '01? If you're keeping her for any real time buy new and take the latest technology, ease of use, warranty, and service. Don't discount the value of having a shiny, clean motor on your shiney, new boat. On the other hand, if you're already thinking a 27 or 30 footer would be nice, buy used.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 01:50:35

Doug, my "new" boat is an '01 250 so the motor mounts directly on the starboard transom. Yes, I'm getting new, probably the 9.9 Tohatsu. Nearly a grand less than Honda, Mercury, or Yamaha and has the same bells and whistles and over 20 pounds lighter.

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frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 07:02:00

I have a 99 Nissan 9.8 2-stroke, 25" shaft, on my 2000 C250 WK. It has been great, never failed to start, always dependable and has no problem with attaining hull speed. When I replace it will be going with a Nissan 4-stroke.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 19:51:59

Decided on the Tohatsu. Boater's World here in Long Beach sells it out the door including tax for $1,900.00. Same as the Nissan but without the "name" markup.

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