Association Forum - Seaward Princess one burner troubles

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Seaward Princess one burner troubles

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/15/2005 : 19:36:15

During last years season we encountered burner problems with the butane cannister holder for the Seaward Princess one burner gas stove that came originally with the 1995 WB 250. The stove seems to work fine.

The problem is that the "off-mid-open" knob on the cannister holder device has seized up and is nearly impossible to turn from off to mid to open. Also after inserting the approx. 8 ounce butane container and lowering the lever a slight hissing noise is heard.
I've taken the unit out of the boat and am looking for either a replacement or any suggestions as to how to fix the problem. Does any one know where a new butane cannister holder unit can be obtained? What is the actual name of the unit?
Thank you in advance

Henk & Johanna
"Floating", a few off your "barnacles".
"Someday Lady" '95 C250WB #151 ('03 - 2016)
"Sea ya" 30ft Bayliner (04-2018 - 09-2018)
"Mariah" '96 C250WB #191 (05-2019 - 15-05-2023)
"Lady J" '00 C250WK #499 (05-2021 - 09-2022)

Edited by - on

Quentin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2005 : 19:13:02

I also have a 1995 250 #153. This past spring. I converted from the non-functioning butane supply system to propane I am happy with the conversion.

Inexpensive on/off valves are available at department stores that have well-stocked camping sections. The valves attach to small propane cylinders and adapt to 1/8" npt.

Two cautions.

#1 Propane is heaver than air therefore a propane leak inside you boat will not easily dissipate. I may be wrong but my understanding is Butane is lighter than air therefore a leak will rise up and out of the boat.

#2 If you decide to convert to Propane please – please install a pressure regulator without one you will risk flare ups every time you light the stove. Regulators are also inexpensive. I purchased my two-stage regulator from a RV supply store.

I think total parts were less than $45.00

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2005 : 18:03:38

Quentin: We love our '95 WB C251 even if splashdown is a long 3.75 months away. Driveway/tarp sailing has taken us many places
Thanks for your timely information. Just couple of days ago I purchased a low, medium and high valve (replacement valve for the coleman stoves $24.00 Canadian) and attached the male nipple of the quick coupling which was part of the rinkie dink butane cannister holder that came with the boat. (Arlyn's suggestion) Before connecting this to the stove, would you still recommend the 2 stage regulator and if so did you buy your supply line from tank to stove complete as a unit?

Did you make any other improvements?
Here are some images of projects we completed last year
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hgsail/album?.dir=9e00&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

Edited by - on

Quentin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 01:19:55

Henk,

Yes, please install a pressure regulator.

The coleman off, low, med., high valve is simply an adjustable orifice. Your control knob at the stove is also an adjustable orifice. Here is the concern. You will be trying to control fuel flow or flame height with two orifices. An orifice can not maintained constant flow rate without constant pressure. Below are two examples of what happens. The second example is easy to relate to.

Example one on the boat.
#1 The coleman valve at the tank and set it to low.
#2 During the next few seconds pressure inside the lines between the coleman valve and the stove valve builds to equal to tank pressure.
#3 The stove knob is rotated to (for this example) mid range then depressed for lighting for the first few seconds propane is flowing at a high rate which slows as the pressure in the lines diminish.
#4 Within a few seconds a controllable flame height is established because pressure in the lines drop and is maintained due to the combination of flow rate and the coleman orifice setting (low)
#4 Your pot of seafood gumbo is boiling thus the stove knob is set lower and the flame goes down.
#4a) As you set your table and uncork wine. (by the way nice table you built thanks for the pictures)
#5 A problem develops, pressure in the lines increase because the now lower flow rate thru the coleman valve orifice does not create the same pressure drop causing the pressure in the lines build. Flame increases a bit automatically.
#6 Gumbo is boiling again. Cook turns stove knob down again. Pressure in the lines builds again. Lower again and the dam wind blows the flam out. Funny sailor’s love/hate relationship with wind.
#7 Stove/fuel flow is off because of the thermal device stopes the flow of fuel or the cooks habit of truning the knob off in preperation prior to relight, pressure in the lines builds to tank pressure.
#8 Turn stove knob to mid range and depressed, large flame again this time from under the pot which singes the nice new napkins with the embroidered sailboats.
#9 Flam is again established at a controllable rate until the next cycle.

Example two in the back yard.

Your garden hose is turned on at the house but the know is just ¼ turn open. At the end of the hose, you squeeze the trigger just a bit to fill a bucket, what you get is a surge of water that droops to a trickle. If you stop the water flow you will again get a surge. You can eventually get a constant flow if you play with the valve at the house and or the valve at the end of the hose.

A few Propane facts.
a) Pressure inside a propane tank is dependent on temperature of the liquid inside the tank. LPG tank pressure is not affected by the amount of fuel inside the tank, unless of course you run out.

b) Boiling point of LPG at atmospheric pressure is around –44 degrees (f). What happens inside the tank is it boils builds up pressure the increased pressure stops the boiling..

c) On a hot day the pressure is upwards of 150 psi. when it is really really cold outside pressure is down around 20 psi.

I will get pictures of the regulator in a week or so, simple to install. I/we should look up proper LPG storage on a boat. I seen cloth LP tank holders that hang outside on the railing.

Take care

Quentin

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 15:13:04

I saw a safety recall on some of the butane canister stoves. Ah yes, Google has it...
If you have one you might check http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml01/01198.html

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 23:19:31

Thanks for the information... gas scares me and will do anything to make sure that the replacement of the rinky dink butane canister with a propane bottle is going to be safe. As per Quentin’s suggestion I would like to add the inline pressure regulator but don’t seem to be able to locate a source for this... Any suggestions regarding a source, type, model etc. would be welcome

Edited by - on

Quentin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2005 : 08:10:58

Henk,

I did a search on the net and came up with the link below. I purchased my two stage regulator locally. The regulator on the top of the page is simular to the one I am using.

http://www.marksrv.com/lp.htm

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2005 : 17:15:59

Thanks Quentin for providing the website page... located the same regulator at a local supply... Now it is the question how to connect this extra security device inline to the existing arrangement. Would you have a picture of your supply line? Thanks

Edited by - on

Quentin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 17:57:49

Zeil,

Sorry for the delay I been doing Holliday stuff. I now have a picture of the conversion but can't seem to past it to this post. Some day I will figure it out. In the interim e-mail rockkart@aol.com I will be happy to send it to you and other interested sailors.

Quentin

Old Bombay II 250WB 153

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 19:50:10

Thanks for the offer of sending a picture of your supply line arrangement. Arlyn mentioned a little earlier that he successfully does not use an in line regulator but disconnects his supply each time after use and stores it in the fuel locker. I do want to make every effort to keep gas use as safe as possible.

Edited by - on

Quentin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2006 : 10:40:13

Correction,
Ealier in this tread I mentioned that I thought butane was lighter than air, I was wrong.

I researched Butane this morning and found that Butane is heavier than Propane.

Vapour Density Propane=1.5 Butane=2.11 Air=1

Now I'm at a loss as to why Seaward selected butane as a fuel? That rinky dink system is a joke and there seems to be no advantage. I was a bit concerned when I converted to Propane but now I don't see a down side. Consideding no fuel is compleatly safe.

My plan has been to store all fuel tanks topside but I confess between meals the tank in use has been left under the sink.

Has anyone installed a LPG fuel detection devise?

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2006 : 12:36:42

I guess a real question is whether a 16 oz bottle of propane can fill up the boat enough to make an explosive mixture. I am sure someone here knows the answer.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.