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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Results of survey

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dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/01/2006 : 11:29:05

Friday I had the boat surveyed AFTER I finalized the purchase (for insurance). How's that for doing things backwards?
Anyway, a couple of things came up that I would like to run by you.
The keel has rust stains on it. I couldn't really figure it out since the keel on an 86 is supposed to be glass encased lead. When I looked the boat over I saw stainless steel keel bolts with ss washers. The surveyor indicated that water in the bilge will seep down around the bolts and corrode them. Has this been your experience. I'm sure that the keel bolts were changed not more than 6/7 years ago. What steps would you take to prevent further deterioraton of SS bolts? Or, as the surveyor said, should I just go sailing? Would holes on the bottom of the keel let any water that gets in through the bilge/elsewhere? permit the keel to drain and resolve the problem? I know they do this on Ensigns.
2) Inspection of the deck revealed deterioration of the core in an area behind the anchor locker and forward of the hatch. The surveyor said that treatment by injecting wood preservative and epoxy probably wouldn't stop infiltration of water, you guessed it, I should just go sailing.
Have any of you had experience injecting wood preservatives and epoxies into the core as a durable fix? Also there is a punchout on the deck in that area that seems to be for a decklight that is leaking. Can you let me know how to remove this cover? It appears to sit on a rubber gasket with no tighteners. Ditto on the inside.
Hope everyone had a Happy New Year.

Daniel 86 "Solar Wind" #5339 C-25 FK/SR I/B Diesel

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2006 : 21:56:09

lots of great questions. people will give you some solid advise. the only thing i can speak to is the rusty keel... its not! i don't know what it is but it aint rust. also, there should not be any water in your bilge, 25s are dry boats. they do not use the bilge for any active draining. if you have leaks, find them and fix them... no, you do not install drains in your bilge.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 08:30:50

If you sail in fresh water, the keel bolts are not likely to rust appreciably for many years. Salt water erodes them. I didn't sail mine much in salt water, so never had to worry about it. As Frank said, you need to seal the leaks, to keep the bilge as dry as possible, and then coat the keel bolts with some kind of preservative, perhaps grease. Someone might have a better suggestion.

Injecting epoxy into the foredeck will probably slow the deterioration, but I've read that it won't stop it. Again, I never had to make such a repair, but I know a person who replaced the foredeck on a C22. He said he got in the v-berth and cut the fiberglass underneath it, and replaced the plywood core. Then he replaced the fiberglass that he cut out, and glassed it back into place. When he was done, the outside gel coat was undamaged, but he said the scars in the v-berth didn't look so good. I think the repairs in the v-berth could probably be sanded smooth and painted, and it would probably look fine. I also think it would be easier to do the job from the outside, rather than in the v-berth, but you would probably want to repair any scars from the repairs. The best way to do that would be to paint the topsides after you're done. There are topside boat paints that can be very successfully applied by the do-it-yourselfer, are long-lasting and will make her look like new. I'm speculating that, if you'd do the work from the outside, you'd almost be able to paint the boat in the time you'd save by doing it that way.

I've never seen or heard of a foredeck lite leaking, and don't have a clue how to remove it, but that's undoubtedly the cause of the damage to the foredeck, and it needs to be sealed. If the plywood core isn't damaged too bad, you might be able to get away with sealing the leaky lite and injecting epoxy into the plywood core to stabilize it.

The fin keel on a 1986 boat is lead encased in fiberglass. There's nothing that could leave rust stains on the outside of the keel. Could the red stains be a previous layer of red bottom paint that is bleeding through and running down the keel?

I haven't been much help, but the ingenius idea of this forum is that everyone contributes what little he knows, and somehow you'll end up with a lot of information.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/02/2006 08:36:32

dblitz
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240 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 09:04:53

The thought of actually recoring the boat from the inside or outside is daunting. Not only for the technical knowledge required to do a professional job but also considering globalization, outsourcing, looking for colleges, gardening, the occasional barbecue and a short season for starters.
I did think stabilization with epoxy products would stabilize the core. Have any of you used products from www.rotdoctor.com?
My boat had not been used for 5 years and I wonder if a gallon of rainwater in the bilge accumulated in that time would be considered normal.
Glad to hear that Catalinas are dry boats because I was surprised that it only had a hand pump. Haven't most of you upgraded to electric pumps with float switches?
There is no deck light on my boat. Should I just pry the deck light cover off? Isn't it glued or screwed on?
Thanks to all

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 09:44:21

From experience, if your deck is getting soft, find the source of the leak and stop it. Recoring a deck is not fun work and should be done on a larger scale, not peicemeal.

I would find the sources of the water first and stop the leaks. It is most likely deck fittings, jib track fittings, stanchions or possibly the rubrail screws. (for both of your water problems.) What this really means is to rebed all the hardware.

Rot doctor, or injecting resin into the supposed wet areas may or may not work. It probably won't do any harm though, however you would actually have to hit the right spot. You may even find that it is a bigger area than you thought. Doing this right is going to be a long project. you'll need to remove the top layer of glass, remove the core dry everything out, put in new glass and core and reglass the top. Then you'll need to paint.

Secondly, I'd investigate the keel issue Yes they used glass encased lead, but I'm not exactly sure on the years; there have been anomolies with different styles over the years. Mine is Cast Iron - different year, but cast iron none-the-less. It is very possible your's could be cast iron too.

By the way - Some catalinas are dry boats. If you get a DPO who didn't do jack you can get a wet boat.
That deck punchout you refer to might be an inspection plate. Usually if they are on the deck, it is for a solar fan. Can you get a picture...

GO SAILING WAS THE BEST ADVICE

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 14:33:42

rotdoctor.com

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 18:44:34

On my '85, the skylight between the anchor locker and the forward hatch was held in by a bead of silicone caulk. It's fairly thin plastic sitting on the plywood core, so if there's a leak, the water will get into the plywood. I ordered a new lense kit (inside and outside) from Catalina Direct to replace a broken one, pried the old lenses off, scraped the silicone away, put down a new silicone bead, and pressed the new lense into it enough to raise some silicone to the surface around all four sides. (Don't get it on the deck--it makes a mess!) Some will question the use of silicone rather than polysulfide--I suspect silicone does a better job of sealing the plywood, so I stayed with it. If I were to do it again, I'd make a thicker lense out of polycarbonate or plexiglass with bevelled edges on the top--the stock (and CD's) lenses aren't as strong as they should be. The inner lense is insignificant, and could compound the effects of water leaking in by trapping it there--I removed mine and left it open inside. I suggest doing the same to help dry out the core around the skylight. That would also let you assess the damage and could be an easy place to do some injections.

I doubt very much that your keel is cast iron. The brown stains could be from something like decomposing algae in voids under the bottom paint, or some corrosion in the stainless bolts--that happens to stainless where it's not exposed to oxygen for long periods. If your lead keel falls off, I think it'd be a first for a C-25.

Edited by - on

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2006 : 00:03:53

I'm going to pry the lens off and see what's doing there. Surprised to learn that the core is visible there. The surveyor did say that SS will rust due to lack of oxygen.
Maybe there's a chemical that can be left in the bilge that will combine or be transported to the bolts by the water that will protect the bolts. I guess that's a question for the metallurgists amongst us.
The surveyor did say that the boat had had the keel repaired possibly from a grounding. It seems that the repair includes addition of plywood between the keel and the fiberglass. When the plywood gets wet and the boat is heeling, the keel will flex the bolts and the plywood making for some play (which increases over time). Suggested solution:
Remove bolts, add aluminum plates and retighten bolts to spread the point of contact over larger fiberglass area. I haven't seen any pix with this type of setup though. Seems like I've been engaging all of you with the keel excessively when I have so much other stuff to ask about, my apologies. I better send in my dues.
Daniel

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2006 : 09:38:10

The C25 has a piece of plywood fiberglassed into the keel stub, and the keel bolts extend through the plywood. If moisture gets into the plywood and the plywood deteriorates, the plywood can be replaced. Catalina has provided instructions for the repair, which can be found by clicking on the following hyperlink. As I recall, the hyperlink describes the repair on a C27, but it's basically the same for a C25.

http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/images/keel_factory_drawings/keel_stub_wood_procedure_from_catalina.gif

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