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 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 General Sailing Forum
 What is the advantage of a Ketch???
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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/17/2005 :  21:54:52  Show Profile
Hi All, my brother out in Portland is thinking about buying a '37 Ketch. What is the advantage of a Ketch. It just looks like more rigging to buy and deal with. I am trying to talk into a Catalina of the same length. Cheers.

Dennis
No Boat
S.E. Michigan

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2005 :  22:08:54  Show Profile  Visit Frank Hopper's Homepage
Equal sail area down low. Low is good, sail area is good.

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Greg Jackson
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2005 :  22:31:10  Show Profile
Long distance underhanded sailors claim that Ketch, Yawl, and Cutter designs all allow a small crew to sail a big boat since there there are no large sails. With each sail smaller, one person can deal with rasing or lowering, even in a big blow. The extra time it takes to get the boat rigged is not much of a problem if you hang out at one Pacific island for a few months, and then make a 2 week voyage to the next island. Much more of a problem if your main sailing is a three hour cruise.

G. Jackson

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2005 :  10:15:08  Show Profile
Besides allowing for breaking the sailplan between smaller more manageable sails, for long distance sailors, the ketch allows for more options than a sloop to set sails to balance the sailplan to accomodate different wind and sea states on long passages.

All other things being equal, the sloop is the faster more efficient sailplan and the sails on a 37 footer should be manageable enough for a small crew without the additional hastle of setting trimming, and buying/maintaining two sets.

For heavy conditions low is good but for best performance within a vessels sailing envelope "high is good".

The more sail you can reasonably carry "high" (in free air that is less affected by the sea surface, rigging and the deck), until you're overpowered, the faster you'll go.

Edited by - oldsalt on 12/18/2005 10:16:19
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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2005 :  13:27:40  Show Profile
Cutter rig is what I'll be looking for in my next boat. (Had one before)

The twin headsails give a lot more flexibility in the sail plan and a self-tacking staysail is a genuine pleasure to have when driving upwind. They also offer better visibility under the jib and the symmetry of the headsails when trimmed properly is quite beautiful to behold.

Can do without the second mast of the ketch/yawl tho... IMHO single main is just fine.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2005 :  12:43:08  Show Profile  Visit JimB517's Homepage
The only advantage to a ketch is on the beam reach. The idea is to divide the sails into smaller, easier to handle sizes. Running, the mizzen blankets the main. The ketch does not point very well either. People claim that when the wind pipes up to much you can sail "jib and jigger" meaning drop the main and run under mizzen and jib alone.

I believe in a 37 foot boat the ketch rig would be a dog. Buy that boat and I'll sail my C25 in circles around it in any winds under 25 knots.

With modern roller furling, big winches and high tech halyards/sheets you can handle a bigger sloop just as easy.

Check out any ketches you see sailing around your area. Bet they are either under power or the mizzen is furled. Talk him into a used C36.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2005 :  12:59:08  Show Profile
Hi Jim, I think I have him convinced on the merits of a used 36' sloop. Cheers.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2005 :  16:25:27  Show Profile
Hi All, OK, I talked my brother Pat into a sloop configuration. His is just now getting back into sailing after a 20 (kids) break. I do not know all the different boats out there and he is asking what mid 30 foot boat has the most living space. He is planning on living aboard during the summer. Cheers.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2005 :  19:49:38  Show Profile
What's his budget?
His sailing Venue? Shoal? Deep? Warm? Cold?
Any bluewater in his future?
Single handed?

Lots of boats to choose from in the mid-30's...
Above questions help narrow the field.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2005 :  21:57:53  Show Profile
Hi CB, good questions. His budget is 30 to 40K, the boat will be moored in Portland OR. on the Columbia and he plans on spending time on the ocean and up in the San Juans. Yep, some single handed and some with his wife (who suggested the boat in the first place) Good wife. Cheers.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2005 :  23:17:54  Show Profile
Bayfield 32
Catalina 38 (the classic S&S design...)
Catalina 36, 34
Ericson 36
Ericson 35 (nice, fast boat)
Gulf 32
Peterson 36, 365
Westsail

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reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 :  09:32:14  Show Profile
Everyone has good points re: ketch rigs, no disagreement here on issues of efficiency but let us give the ketch points for beauty and the appearance of grace on the water. Certainly it's a lovely rig and I am always glad when one sails into view.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 :  10:32:05  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by reuben</i>
<br />...but let us give the ketch points for beauty and the appearance of grace on the water. Certainly it's a lovely rig and I am always glad when one sails into view.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I wouldn't exactly agree if it's an Irwin 37 (a ketch, coincidentally). It's big inside--"stateroom" aft of the center cockpit--but kind of a tub. The Catalina 38 is kinda pretty... I'd like the Cape Dory 36 (speaking of cutters and graceful boats).

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