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Depth Finder Power Requirements

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/21/2005 : 12:23:28

I have an SR Mariner Analog Depth Finder. It has about a 4-5" diameter hole and so it is advantageous to get it repaired and the parent company does repair them. However, I could also replace it with a digital depthfinder but they usually have a smaller footprint and that then requires patching up the existing hole.
But here's my question for the sparkeys out there -

The SR marinaer draws 25-50ma. Most of the digital depthfinders also draw close to that 25-125ma. But the fishfinders and some of the fancier depthfinders list 250-700 watts. So..the digital depthfinders they list ma and the fishfinders I see them listing high wattage demands - Why is that ? Why not just state the draw in milli-amps or amps.

I suspect because many have fishfinders have large LCD screens, the power required is much greater than the typical digital depthfinder with just a numerical readout. Anyway...do those fishfinders really use 250-700 watts ? It would seem that would be an unbelievable load on the battery especially on a battery on a sailboat. What am I missing in understanding the power requirements and feasibility of considering other depthfinders/fishfinders as a replacement for the SR mariner Analog depthfinder and have it use a minute amount of battery power ?

Larry

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:23:41

I use a Humminbird Matrix 10 with GPS

Here is the link[url="http://humminbird.com/products.asp?ID=375"]humminbird.com[/url] The power listed for it is for the output of the sonar, it doesn't list the total power draw on the battery. I wonder if the sonar is pulsed which would make the power draw hard to figure simply based on the power output during a burst. I do not know enough about them to say for sure. However, I run mine with the GPS and my stereo, etc and have never come close to draining my batteries. I suppose the longest I have run it whithout plugging in to shore power would be about 14 hours. But at that point there is no sign of deplenished power.

I really like my unit, If I had an old instrument I would plug the hole. Fishfinders are just so cheap! Mine was $150 on ebay from Westmarine. I have seen people put flushmount speakers in instrument holes. A nice Plastimo Contest 101 is always nice too.

They are cool because you can see them from inside the cabin as well.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 12/21/2005 13:25:46

Brian King
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:51:13

I am thinking about replacing my SR Mariner instruments with a Navman 4200SX. This would require cutting the big hole even BIGGER! But I think it would work very nicely as a flush mount. I'm not sure about replacing the sending units - it that going to be a big project or an easy replacement. Unknown right now. I never gave any thought to power consumption. I'm on a mooring so there is no shore power option for me. I nearly got through the season this past summer without charging, but finally had to pull them and charge them in early Sept.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 14:58:13

"...list 250-700 watts. So..the digital depthfinders they list ma and the fishfinders I see them listing high wattage demands..."

The fishfinder wattage listings are for the peak power (sonic pulse) emitted from the transducer itself. It's not representative of the overall power draw of the unit, which is usually a small fraction of the transducer pulse power. Fishermen are keenly interested in the transducer power as it gives greater depth capability.

If the device drew 700W continuous at 12V you'd be pulling nearly 60 DC amps... it would need a pretty big power cable, you could nearly arc-weld with it!

As a rough rule of thumb... 700 watts is approximately 1 horsepower.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 15:27:44

A very simple solution for charging on a mooring is by using a small solar charger. 3-5 watt would be fine for a single battery. 5-10 watt for dual batteries. It is much better for batteries to keep them fully charged.

I would be very surprised to see any small electronic device drawing more that an amp or two. I believe the 700w they are refering to is a measurement in relation to the audio properties. I am sure someone will chime in.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 15:45:47

Hey, I got another solution for you, I have both an SR Marineer Wind Guage, and a Knot Meter I will sell you. 250.00 per unit. Both have brand new tranducers from Sr marineer, I spent well over 500.00 on them alone, My wife got me a Navman package for the boat, so the SR Stuff is sitting in the garage in the box. Everything works, I had a Depth Guage but sold it on this forum 6 moths ago. Look in the "For Sale Forum" everything is listed there.

Up for sale is a Instrument package from SR Mariner. I purshased the Digital guages last year off of Ebay. I am Not looking to make money on this, I just need to sell them because I had sold the San Juan 24 I was going to put them in. Our newer Capri 25 has all of these instruments installed, So I will pass on the savings to you. There are 3 guages total, Speed, Depth, and Wind Angle and Wind Speed. All of the tranducers are brand new from SR Mariner, I have a new depth, and knot meter, and the new thru hulls, dummy plugs, cables, And the 80.00 cutting tool that will cut and champer the hull 30 degrees for the thru hulls to mount flush. There also is a brand new Wind tranducer, with wind speed cups. All of the instrments work, I have tested all of them 3 months ago and guarantee that they work. Guages are lightly used shape but everything else is brand new from SR. Now with all of that out of the way, I am asking 700.00 for everything. I spent 200.00 for the guages and another 500.00 plus for the gusges from SR Mariner. If you are interested I can take photos and email them to you. I will 100% stand behind these instruments. Contact info: sirstopher@yahoo.com Photos below are off of SR Mariners site. The wind Guage Photoed is Not as good as the one I have.

The DKL-5 is a digital Knot/Log indicator that reads boat speed from 0 - 19.99 knots full scale and has a total log to 9999.99 miles. This unit also features a (+/-) trim indicator and front mounted averaging adjustment. All Knot-meter and Knot/Log units include: Display, lower unit transmitter with 30' cable, thru-hull fitting, and dummy plug.

The DDM-1 is a digital Depth Sounder, It has a keel offset, Depth alarm, and is totaly adjustable.All Depth-meters include: Display, lower unit transducer with 30' cable, thru-hull fitting, and dummy plug.

The AWS-10 indicates the apparent wind angle from 10° port to 10° starboard. The AW-1 and the WS-1 may share the same mast unit for displaying both wind speed and apparent wind angle. All Wind Instruments Include: Display, masthead unit, connectors, and 85' cable.

Edited by - Ericson33 on 12/21/2005 15:49:08

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 19:26:15

Thanks for all the responses !

I saw in their website, SR Mariner's package of instruments and etc ones on other websites and in the Boat US catalog BUT...I not planning on going that route. There is a limit before the Spouse alarm goes off and I am approaching the red-danger zone especially since a new motor is anticipated. I have the SR Mariner Analog Knotmeter and a Saturn compass. When I had my Oday 23 I only had a compass, so for me, the present addl gages seems fine - but a working depthfinder is really a necessity on the Potomac River.

This site is great - You guys explained the situation with the 250-700 watts that makes perfect sense. I do recall some advertisements sort of tieing in the watts and depth maximums. It probably is the pulse and that is intermittent. The comparisons offered like sailing 14 hours and no noticeable power loss - that puts into terms that minimizes my concern and so maybe I will give fishfinders more consideration. I will check out the Hummingbird and also the Navman mentioned above.

Question - What are the best options for where to mount a fishfinder ? Pivoting mount from inside the companionway and swings out ?

By the way - I guess the way to go these days is digital but SR company still sells the analog depthfinder as well as the digital one shown in the above post. The SR Mariner gages whether analog or digital are very expensive with each in the $400+ range compared to many other companies selling digital depthfinders in the $ 90 - $ 300 range. Even Frank's Hummingbid Fishfinder was $150. So...not sure why the SR instruments so expensive.

Larry

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 21:01:54

Check out the RAM mounts... lots of possibilites. I use one for mounting a GPS/Depth on my powerboat which gets a lot of sharp, jarring movements. Works well.

http://www.ram-mount.com/ramcat.htm

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2005 : 22:25:13

The Humminbirds come with their own mounts of course and the cabin side looks like this

Remember, people just epoxy the transducers to the hull now days, no need to drill.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2005 : 06:05:23

I covered up the hole in my bulkhead with a small piece of starboard, and then drilled a smaller hole in it to mount a new digital Uniden depth sounder whick I got on sale for about 75 bucks.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2005 : 07:54:59

This Maurice guy is obviously bogus and offensive. We have a very good record on this forum of avoiding posters like this. He will be removed and I hope he will not bother to hit us again. His only purpose is to post his signature links to online gambling which is completely inappropriate. He did not even leave an email address so we could ask him to stop, only more links to online gambling. Please avoid his links until we can purge him. (Scum are so annoying!)

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2005 : 07:55:40

Frank - I'm leaning that way as well - Fill in the hole with a smaller cutout if I go the Depthfinder route. of course, i could just send in my analog unit and if it costs $100, that's a lot but then would require no modifications. the analog with the dial is nice as well, though, digital gives the impression of more accuracy. however, i have seen some commercial websites where the explanation of their digital gage was that the analog signal was converted to digital and so even if analog seems like the old method, it need not be considered less accurate. A needle indicator may be easier to see/read in sunlight.

I also saw a Lowrance depthfinder that has a slightly larger diameter than the Uniden units. The Lowrance is a 3 3/8 diameter. It is a bit more high tech depthfinder with an outer ring that indicates the depth besides the digital readout. it also has small lines along the circumference that indicates fish, etc if one is into knowing what is below the boat besides mud. The Lowrance unit is however more expensive - $199 list price. The amp draw is 140ma with light off and 200ma with light on. The Uniden's and other similar depthfinders usually have an amp draw between 25ma and 75ma. I have a solar panel and the motor has an alternator so perhaps my concerns over power are exaggerated. I was mostly concerned with the fishfinder power needs and that seems not so bad after reading the comments. Mounting a fishfinder with a larger cutout, etc ways of doing it - i'm not thrilled about. I hate putting addl holes or messing with installing using screws etc which into the stock boat. it's just me but i like to minimize any changes to the origianl structure. if I can install things with clamps, adhesive, etc that does not alter the origianl structure, that is always my first consideration. that is one reason i would favor something similar to what you did by utilizing the same hole, using Starboard to cut out the smaller hole.

Larry

Larry

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2005 : 15:05:30

Hey Frank
Good call on that Maurice guy
You da man
Have a Merry Christmas, and I hope that next year is your best year ever.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2005 : 16:04:36

Frank,
I wondered what those scribbles were...never realized they were a phoney plug for his operation. Wonder if he operates as such on other forums? The brute

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2005 : 17:35:38

Frank H,

Your post on 12/21 had the inside cabin photo showing the fishfinder wires. I wanted to see what your fishfinder looks like from the cockpit side and how or what you used to mount it - rereading your post believe you used the stock mount that the Hummingbird comes with and attached it with screws directly to the bulkhead from the cockpit side ? . I checked your website but could not find a photo showing it. Do you have a photo from the cockpit side ?

Larry

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2005 : 19:50:07

Larry,<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Mounting a fishfinder with a larger cutout, etc ways of doing it - i'm not thrilled about. I hate putting addl holes or messing with installing using screws etc which into the stock boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">I agree that it might not be the best move to make a large custom cut-out in such a conspicuous location for something as short-lived and soon obsolete as boat electronics. When I installed my fishfinder, I built a sort of 'picture frame' for it. That way, the only holes I had to make in the bulkhead are four #8 mounting screws (into the back of the teak), and two 9/16" or so holes for the connectors on the fishfinder wiring harness. The 'picture frame' has a rabbet on the inside which overlaps the edges of the fishfinder a bit, and is the correct depth to hold it in place without additional fasteners.
<center>
[url="http://home.mpinet.net/~sissonl/boating/photos/C25_StbdInst_120_Jm.JPG"]

[/url]
([url="http://home.mpinet.net/~sissonl/boating/photos/C25_StbdInst_120_Jm.JPG"]click image to enlarge[/url])
</center>
-- Leon Sisson

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2005 : 21:56:05

This is the new unit in the 89

I mounted the unit high and to the right to try and make room for someone to sit without hiding the screen.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2005 : 06:29:56

Leon & Frank,

Great photos !
It's not that i wouldn't put screws in the bulkhead, it's just that weighing all factors, it is one consideration i would avoid if I could. But...it then dawned on me that if i were to fill the existing 4-5" hole that the present SR Mariner depthmeter occupies, I could probably put the screws into the Starboard material that fills the hole. That is more to my liking.

You both have excellent setups. Frank, I also was thinking of when someone leans against the bulkhead, a common occurrence and the fishfinder may prevent that. But you answered that and I see from the mounting you did that it would still be possible. I did not consider that the fishfinder would be quick disconnected so it could conveniently be stored on the inside. That is a great feature.

I am going to consider the Hummingbird model some more. What about the digital readout - Some fishfinders have larger readouts than others. Any ssues there ? Are they all fairly readable from viewing from the tiller area. I think there was a Navman unit tha had exceptionally large numeric numbers versus others. How about the mounting - The Hummingbird apparently works fine for the installation on a catalina. Not sure about the others - they all come with varying mounts as standard equipment.

Larry

Edited by - on

Dan86
Navigator

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130 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2005 : 07:17:54

I do not have pics, but to cover the large hole, I cut a teak winch pad down to 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick, painted with cetol, and then put a small diameter depth finder instrument in the center. The trim around the new gauage matches the rest of the teak on the boat nicely and looks better than other options I considered.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2005 : 09:01:28

I bought the cheapest Matrix unit Humminbird sells. There are nicer readouts available but I am very pleased with mine. Note that mine has GPS, I urge you to buy it with that option. My receiver has no problem receiving from inside the cabin where you see it. The GPS does everything my Garmin 76 did that I actually used. Tracks, waypoints, speed (the biggie) and compass. The compass is the weak point because they do not give you a screen choice that makes that a large readout. But overall this is a great 3 in 1 device that is removable, easy to install, (you just epoxy the transponder to the hull) and cheap. The location port or starboard was chosen based on the availability of 12 volt at the cigarette lighter that was already there. By the way, the cable clutter could be reduced but I left the "tail" that would allow it to interface with other devices.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 12/23/2005 09:02:51

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2005 : 11:31:38

IMHO:

Once you have used a GPS with chartplotting/mapping you'll never want an 'ordinary' one again.
If you're in a GPS buying mode, pony up the extra bucks and get one with mapping.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2005 : 11:59:08

It looks like the fishfinder will be the way to go for me - I'm thinking that seeing the bottom contour is a real plus on the Potomac especially since I have to stay pretty much in a narrow channel or not very far outside of it for certain sections of the river.

The PO left a handheld Garmin Etrex aboard the boat. But it seems more fitting for hiking. Putting in the waypoints, etc takes some time and best to have another fooling with it while sailing. But if the GPS had mapping potential, then that could be loaded and take a lot of the effort out of using it. Winter is a great time to be thinking about these improvements and i like researching out what i purchase. I definitely will be making a decision soon and then add that to the list of other projects to get working on.

Frank - You mentioned that the receiver has no problem receiving from inside the cabin. I am not sure I understand. I see the photo with it installed on the cocpit side and it is removable and can be stored on the inside. How is it receiving inside and what benefit ? Maybe to see tie shifts when at anchor ? The photos show it hardwired (your earlier photo) with wires passing thru the bulkhead to the mount. But when you remove the fishfinder and store it in the box inside the cabin, isn't it disconnected ?

Larry

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2005 : 12:39:08

Frank, I now know what you were talking about regarding the receiver. I guess I assumed that the receiver was built into the fishfinder. However, looking at the BoatUS Catalog, it shows the GPS receiver as an option and a separate device ...so I guess you are saying the reciver gets accurate satellite tracking from inside the cabin and no reason to have it in the cockpit.

The GPS option adds $100 to the price once you consider which fishfinder you want and that does not include mapping/charting. The mapping charting options which only some fishfinders have or you buy a GPS unit separately, is another bunch of dough.

I think right now I may just consider the fishfinder without the add-ons. I have the ETrex the PO left for me and...really on the Potomac river it does not serve much purpose unless one was to travel the 100 plus miles or so and get into the Chesepeake Bay. But...still checking out the different units and what their features are - probably go down to the store and see the real thing. ust so much you can get out of a catalog or the websites.

Larry

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2005 : 08:11:05

I was sailing with my daughter Monday morning but it was very breezy with gusts 25-30mph, so we headed back in. Then went over to the BoatUS/West Marine store to take a look at the current fish finders.
Right now leaning toward the Humminbird Matrix 17.

Have a new idea regarding the mounting and what to do with the 5" hole where my present SR Mariner depth finder occupies. Thought I would run it past you guys and see what you think. My backup plan is to install it similar to the way Frank H has installed it and that would be to mount it onto a Starboard to fill the 5" hole. Then with the quick-disconnect, store it in the cabin when not sailing.

I saw some earlier postings where one or two have mounted their fish finder to a support just inside the companionway and then the fishfinder pivots on a wood support arm and tightened with a wing nut on the pivot bracket so that the fish finder is visible from the cockpit with it visible near the top of the companionway. I kind of like that installation. Then you just swing it back in when done sailing for the day.

What I thought might work for the 5" hole where the depth finder presently occupies is to use the Starboard material to convert the circle to a rectangular or square opening and then leave it slightly recessed. Then install a waterproof 3 switch switch panel from Blue Sea and hook up the running, steaming and anchor lights to it. Reason to recess the switch panel slightly is to then install a small plexiglas cover with finger holes in it to get to the switches. The switch panel is waterproof but the plexiglas would prevent someone leaning on the bulkhead from accidentally turning a switch on and off. I would then have a new master switch panel in the cabin (on same board as my solar controller - recently installed) and that would have one or more switches devoted to over-ride the 3 switch waterproof panel accessible from the cockpit. So...the master switch panel would have to have the exterior lights switched on for the waterproof panel to have control. That would prevent anyone monkeying around with the waterproof switch panel when the boat is left sitting at the dock.

This installation would then support replacing the present master switch panel which is a future project I wanted to work on, uses up the 5" hole in the bulkhead and makes for a convenient location in the cockpit to switch on the running and steaming lights without having to go into the cabin and feel around for the appropriate switch inconveniently located under the cabin steps.

Larry

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2005 : 11:11:20

Larry,
Humminbird sells an adapter cable that will allow the use of the Etrex GPS with the Matrix 17. It costs about $50. For $100 you can buy their GPS and keep the Etrex for a backup. The Matrix 17 provides a lot more information and detail than the lower cost Humminbird units so I am not sure installing it as far away as the bulkhead is your best option. You might check out Jim Baumgart's installation. It places the fishfinder up close and personal. Do a search under "navcen" to see a picture. By the way, I cashed in my West Marine gift certificates for a Matrix 17 yesterday. I do fish off my boat so the dual beam sonar and added detail will be of some use. If it is soley to be used as a depth gauge and anchoring tool a lower cost model will more than suffice. If your having to navigate the Potomac you might want to look at the Matrix 37. It is more expensive but provides "QuadraBeam" sonar which allow you to see the bottom off each side of your boat as well as below it. Hope I haven't complicated your decision to much.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2005 : 13:28:46

Joe - Thanks for the input ! First...I can't resist pointing out that you are only a 1st mate and I'm a lowly deckhand, so what do we about these decisions anyway. feel much better with the opinions of the Master Marine Consultants ! But our initiatives show merit - At least that shows we have future potential !! LOL
Kidding aside - So many options ...
Well, it all started with either getting my analog depth finder serviced or replaced with a smaller diameter digital meter. Estimated cost...probably around $125 plus or minus $50.
Now strongly considering a fish finder but as far as GPS, I like the idea of having the option but believe will not purchase it right away. The Etrex works okay but it is not with mapping and so it basically shows you the way home. My limited use with the one the PO left me is that it is somewhat cumbersome to work with it - sticking in the waypoints, etc. Anyway, in the Potomac, the chances of getting lost are fairly remote compared to running aground. The matrix 17 with GPS is probably far superior to the ETrex but still does not have mapping. A fish finder with mapping then raises the cost significantly.

Single, dual and quad transducers: Well...for starters, the Matrix 37 with quadrabeam is another $100 over the Matrix 17.
Looking at the fishfinders on the market, my perception was that many of the companies seem to be going the dual transducer frequencies with more and more of the current models. The difference between the less expensive Humminbird with a single transducer versus the Matrix 17 is about $30. For that $30 you also get some additional features which I thought my be beneficial - namely the resolution is greater. So..springing for the $30 more expensive Matrix 17 seemed the way to go, though, no experience if the dual frequency transducers would be any improvment for me. Not a fisherman but who knows what the future will bring - My kids may be interested. One thing I did check out yesterday at the Boat US/West Marine store was that I noticed a NAVMAN unit in the catalog that had one format with BIG depth font numbers and i wanted to see if the Humminbirds also had a similar format. Apparently they do and I also checked that out on their website. They have a pdf file for the owners manual and they list the format there as well to see the larger font if so desired.

I took your advice and searched for Jim's setup and...for me, I would rather not clutter up the cocpit seats with the instrumentation. As long as the fish finders resolution is good and it also has a format for viewing depths in a large font size, then I do not yet see an issue with it mounted near the companionway. Frank H's setup with his fish finder is mounted on the bulkhead and he indicates he likes it that way. So have a bunch of others. So right now I'm thinking if they did not have issues with it mounted there, then at the bulkhead gets it out of the way in the cockpit and should be readable. Which reminds me...I'm overdue to schedule my next visit to the optomitrist !

My spouse is noting some of these improvements/costs incurred and on the horizon and the thinking right now is that I am not getting any presents any more since I have bought enough to get me thru till 2020. (If I buy any stuff in the next few days - I'll be using cash. LOL

Larry

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