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Electric start won't start.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/05/2006 : 22:04:12

Just installed a Tohatsu 9.8 electric start 4 stroke I just bought from onlineoutboards.com, connected it to my new Group 24 deep cycle 12 volt battery and pushed the start button...nothing, nada, she won't start. Any ideas why not? I've e-mailed the company, hope they can solve whatever problem it is. BTW, it started with a manual pull, ran for a couple minutes, then died. Yes, I added 10/40 oil, followed the owner's manual exactly. Bummer.

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2006 : 22:25:56

Frank F,

Won't crank (turn over), or won't fire up (run on its own)? Check for safety interlocks, such as shifter must be exactly in neutral, throttle must be at 'Start' position. Also check for deadman switch. Check for battery wired backwards (it can happen), bad or missing fuse. Using your multi-meter, see if there's power to the starter relay, both high current, and trigger signal. If you don't have schematics (and a shop manual), look into getting them while the motor is still the current model.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2006 : 23:06:55

There should be schematics available online via the owners manual. My tohatsu had a basic schematic with it and online.

I'd double check the deadman switch as Leon Noted. Also fart around with the choke, make sure the pump on the can is primed.

dw

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 01:21:27

Went down to the boat tonight. Still nothing when I push the starter button, but it fired right up with one manual pull on the starter cord. A schematic wouldn't help me at all since I'm basically an electrical idiot. Battery is wired correctly, i.e. negative to negative, positive to positive. I did leave the AC trickle charger connected but still nothing when I disconnected it. If I have to have a local marine engine guy get it to work I'll send the bill to onlineoutboards.com. Another good reason to purchase from a local retailer for more money instead of via the internet.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 06:48:19

I am not that familiar with your motor - Does it have an alternator ? If it does, make sure that the electrical connections to the motor are getting juice thru them by checking when you start it manually by using a multimeter and putting the test leads to the 12 DC Accessory plug. If you have a battery switch, make sure it is on. Your voltage should increase significantly if the alternator is charging the battery. if not, then maybe there is a film on the electrical wire leads from the motor ? Check it out by using some sandpaper to the motor's electrical leads and then reconnect it to your battery. If that does'nt work...well if you buy a motor, you expect it to work and not have to be an electrical wiz to get it working. I would call Online Outboards and find out what next steps you should do to get the motor checked out. They must have issues now and then with the motors they sell and should have some way set up with some local mechanics to check it out for you. If not...then you have to make the big decision to pay someone to check it out and possibly resolve the situation...or ship it back and let Online Outboards rectify the situation. (Also may want to check if there is a blown fuse in the wiring from the battery to the motor - maybe if the wire leads were touched together when you installed the motor, then that even if remotely possible could be the issue.)

This is the one downside with buying mail order versus paying some bucks more and supporting local suppliers. We all buy stuff online so these dilemmas can plague anyone of us. But those companies that deal with mail order usually would not be in business unless they provided adequate support. If you still have issues after taking above steps which should be within your grasp, then call them and see what they recommend before paying a mechanic and/or shipping back.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 07:11:32

On my Johnson, there is a clip that is attached to a line that is attached to the boat. This clip has to be on the motor for it to start with the electric starter. Don't know why I can hand start it without the clip, but I can. Without it on the motor, it won't start. It is no electrical, it holds a auto shutoff out and it the motor departs the boat and the clip comes off, the motor will shut down. Good luck.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 07:50:07

probably a bad start button if you are getting nothing
however, if you are like me there is a good chance it will turn out to be pilot error.

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 07:59:38

Like Leon says, do you mean the starter didn't crank at all, or the engine didn't catch and run after cranking? If no crank, then the problem is electromechanical and my below comments are NG.

Did the motor continue to run the second time you manually started it, or only a few minutes like the first time? If not, I'd check the fuel line connection (squeeze bulb to prime) and more importantly, check the motor to see if there's a fuel shutoff switch (may be hidden by engine cover), valve or whatever.

Bob

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 08:26:19

1. Make sure the internal electrical connector is connected. This is inside the housing - trace the cables where they come into the engine.
2. Make sure the kill switch (red button) has the "Y" shaped prong with the spiral cord is in place. It slips under the red button.
3. get a good digital volt/ohm meter and learn how to use it. It will pay for itself the first time you find a problem with it.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 08:27:30

A new outboard should have a warranty from the manufacturer, not just from onlineoutboards.com. Any authorized Tohatsu repair shop should do the warranty work for you, regardless of where you bought it. Call a local repair shop and ask them if they can do warranty work on your motor.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 09:21:20

Frank,

The fact that the motor starts manually indicates the the RED "Y" thingie attached to a RED spiral wire (the dead man switch)is in place. They won't start otherwise, and if they do you have another problem. My bet is on some kind of battery motor hook-up screw-up causing a no start condition. Check it out.

Steve is right on about warantees for new motors regardless of where it was purchased. I think your call to Collins will bear this out.

Keep us informed on your progress.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 11:03:12

Sorry to hear about your engine troubles, Farmhand. When I purchased my Tohatsu 9.8 this summer I confirmed it had a manufacturer's warranty (1 year, I believe). The closest authorized service center for me was the Cleveland area, which is about 2 hours away. I suspect onlineoutboards will refer you to an authorized dealer near you. If it was me I'd take it to Cleveland, especially since the engine is sitting idle in my basement during the winter months. This only works, of course, if there is an authorized dealer near you.

Good luck. Let us know what kind of responce you do get from onlineoutboards though. I know a lot of people here have used them, me included, and it'd be nice to know how they are after the sale.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 16:11:25

Frank,
If you purchase a $3 multimeter from harbour freight, I could talk you through how to check most of the probable suspects over the phone. EM me if you are interested. I have the same outboard at the house right now and we could go through it step by step.

Sorry to hear you are having troubles.

Tom.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 20:00:25

Here's the latest update from my online outboard "adventures":

Chris:

"The neutral safety switch may not be engaging properly if the engine is
not perfectly in the neutral gear shift selection. In order to ensure this,
slowly turn the propeller and move the shifter back and fourth until you can
feel it is in neutral. DO NOT EVER shift the gear lever without rotating
the propeller at the same time."

So how come I was able to manually start the engine today with one pull when
the start button wouldn't work? With the extra long shaft, it's not
possible to "turn the propeller and move the shifter back and forth" either
shaft down or up on the transom. Anyway, that was the problem; a problem
solved because I called a Tohatsu Authorized Dealer, Andersson Marine in
Marina del Rey. They informed me that without an authorized dealer doing a
Pre-delivery Inspection, the warranty is null and void. You included the
Pre-Delivery Inspection form but it was blank. I wasn't told by you that I
first had to take the engine to an authorized dealer before installing it on
my boat to validate the warranty. So at considerable inconvenience I took
the engine to Kent Andersson, he fixed the problem, did the inspection, and
chaged me 85 bucks. I would appreciate it if you would credit that amount
back to me on my credit card. Thanks.

John

----- Original Message -----
From: "sales" <sales@onlineoutboards.com>
To: "Frank Farmer" <farmhand4@verizon.net>
Cc: <sales@onlineoutboards.com>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Electric start won't start

> Hi John,
>
> It sounds as though one of three things could be occurring that I can
think
> of.
>
> 1. The neutral safety switch may not be engaging properly if the engine is
> not perfectly in the neutral gear shift selection. In order to ensure
this,
> slowly turn the propeller and move the shifter back and fourth until you
can
> feel it is in neutral. DO NOT EVER shift the gear lever without rotating
> the propeller at the same time. Once you know it's certainly in the
neutral
> position, you can then try to restart the engine. The neutral safety
switch
> is a feature that will not allow the engine to start if its in forward or
> reverse.
>
> 2. Safety lock lanyard - make sure safety lock lanyard is firmly in place
or
> it will not allow the engine to start.
>
> 3. Battery could be defective, even if brand new.
>
>
> Other than that, you may have a bad fuse or something that needs to be
> addressed by a dealer. Let me know if those 3 options do not work and we
> can go to the next step in locating a service center.
>
> Thank you
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:03:12 -0800, Frank Farmer wrote
> > ATTN: Chris
> >
> > Despite installing my 9.8 electric start engine per the owner's
> > manual instructions it won't start. It's connected to a new Group
> > 24 deep cycle battery. I push the starter button, lower right of
> > the engine: nothing. Is there some other adjustment needed that's
> > not in the manual? Please advise. Thanks. And BTW, it won't start
> > manually either.
> >
> > John Farmer
> > Long Beach, CA

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 20:02:51

BTW, John is my legal name, Frank is my professional AKA. I'm a semi-retired commercial actor. Last gig was one of the real California cheese commercials where the cows ring the farmer's doorbell. The farmer answering the door is me.

Edited by - on

Captain Bill
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 20:22:23

Farmhand,
Sorry to hear about engine problem. Just curious - did your engine have sufficient length of electrical cord to connect to battery? I believe some of the earlier models had to add additional cord to hook up to battery.
Thanks, and good luck with the Tohatsu

Bill

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 20:31:21

Yeah, drilled a small hole halfway up the starboard side, slipped the wire through, covered the hole with a small stainless cowling. Below, I found the wire and connectors resting right next to the battery; more than enough length to connect.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 21:42:11

Frank, You got my attention regarding the warranty. I read the whole warranty book and cannot find anywhere where it says "warranty void" if not inspected prior to use.

I simply used the checklist to "Inspect" mine. I did send the warranty card in. I called Nissan USA today and They say my warranty is ok and registered to me. If you feel that you were taken by a warranty snafu, you should take it up with Nissan USA. They have a number in the back of the warranty book.

Glad you have it working now.

Tom.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 23:52:15

Perhaps the "authorized dealer" I went to said that to get my business. I'll let y'all know what onlineoutboards.com responds to my e-mail re the warranty issue.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 09:48:38

Good morning Frank...glad to hear that the problem was fixed...did you find out what caused the problem...that would be worth the $85.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936

Edited by - on

Quentin
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 10:37:43

John, Frank (Farmhand)

Sorry you are having the Tohatsu problem. My Nissan 9.8 will arrive shortly. The 2006 Nissan / Tohatsu comes with 3 years of warranty.

My sailing mate Judy loves that funny commercial. She said "Good job!"

As others in this forum, I offer assistance getting the start problem resolved (I will have a manual in a week or so).

I purchase a lot of stuff on-line but decided against purchasing an outboard on-line. My decision wasn't due to loyalty or anything like that rather I thought it in my best interest (selfish)to purchase locally. I'm lucky a few dealers are within an hour from my house and closer still to where I sail.

I work for a forklift dealership that sells & services a variety of forklifts including Nissan forklifts. In that arena my experience has been that manufactures seldom cover the entire cost for warranty repairs. From that vantage point, warranty work is a necessary evil & considered a cost of doing business. It never seems fare to us when a customer purchased their forklift somewhere else and we are required to do warranty work, however we aren't in a position to complain. We just hope customers’ appreciate our work and continue to do business with us after the warranty runs out.

Prior to purchasing the 9.8 I visited two local Nissan/Tohatsu dealers. I told them I was shopping on-line and asked if they could get close to the internet price thus opening the door for discussion. Both dealers told me when I purchase from them they will uncrate, check out and set up the motor. One dealer said they do not do warranty for motors purchased on-line but would for motors purchased from them and other local dealers. The second dealer told me if I purchased on-line and brought the moto to them for warranty I would be invoiced for any cost not covered under warranty, ie: if it take them three house and Tohatsu pays two hours. I will be asked to pay an hour. Often adjustments, as may be the problem in your case are not covered under waranty. I expect most selling dealers will make minor adjustments for free.

If the price localy was $300.00 more I would gamble purchase on-line and take my lumps if and when I needed warranty work. The price was $85.00 more, I had to pay sales tax which brings it to $200.00 more, the dealer thru in a repair manual. In my case it was a no brainer. Purchase localy.

The other side of my debate: I expect to have thee years of trouble free service, after that I will do my own repairs. Ether way it's a gamble.

Good luck, and I will be looking for that commercial.

Quentin C250 WB #153

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 20:00:14

All's well that ends well. Here's Chris' reply to my "beef":
And BTW, engine remounted, starts and purrs like a dream.

"Hi John,

I have had a chance to speak with my service manager at our dealership
and this is what we can do.

I understand your frustration with your engine not being able to start
using the electric start out of the box. I also understand this was a
simple fix by the dealer as the engine was slightly engaged in gear when
you attempted to start it, thus engaging the neutral safety switch, and
would not allow the engine to fire up. The neutral safety switch is a
standard safety feature on all outboards. It also would have been
corrected using the trouble shooting guide in the owner's manual, or my
initial response item #1 in our previous email correspondence.

Your "dealer" however, in my opinion, has ripped you off and has misled
you. We would NEVER charge anyone $85.00 for a pre-delivery inspection,
one that isn't even required by the manufacturer for warranty purposes
as they mislead you to believe. Your dealer has flat out lied to you
and you can contact the manufacturer directly to confirm this. ALL
Tohatsu/Nissan outboards are FACTORY TANK TESTED before being crated!
Tohatsu/Nissan's warranty labor rate (on covered items) is more along
the lines of $30.00 for this type of issue, not $85.00. The fix to your
issue took less than 60 seconds. The pre-delivery inspection should not
take more than 20 minutes tops. Keep in mind, that the problem you had
was not a warranty covered item as it is considered by the manufacturer
as a simple trouble shooting issue, kind of like not hooking up the gas
line or the safety stop lanyard properly. Another words, it would be a
standard check item as the manual states (making sure the engine was in
the neutral position). The problem is that people try to shift the
engine without the engine running, thus no back pressure on the
propeller and the bullet in the lower unit that engages forward-reverse
gears. The shift mechanism is mechanical and relies on backpressure from
the exhaust to slowly turn the propeller allowing the bullet to do its
job. If you notice, when the engine is in neutral the propeller is
turning just slightly. This provides the movement needed to allow the
bullet to engage the gear. When the shifter is moved while the engine
is not running, it causes it to jam and engage the neutral safety
switch. It is something to be careful about and check in the future
should you have trouble starting the engine in the future.

I understand you wish us to pay $85.00 to reimburse you for expenses
with your "dealer". We are willing to refund you $42.50 (1/2 your bill)
for your troubles with the following reasons:

1. This problem could have been resolved via our initial email (item #1)
or by phone, and it is an issue that would be classified as something
that could occur with any outboard on occasion (standard check item). I
understand that you may be new to this issue and not familiar with it.

2. We never heard from you following our first email to you (we asked
you to contact US if the 3 listed trouble-shooting items didn't solve
your issue, of which item #1 would have). We would have been happy to
help locate a reputable dealer to perform this work for you at a
reasonable rate if it proved necessary, which in this case it doesn't
seem it should have been necessary at all. In addition, most reputable
dealers would have performed this service at no charge, the neutral
safety issue fix, as it takes virtually no time to solve and educate the
customer about. We have done this with many customers who have purchased
elsewhere - its part of being a Tohatsu/Nissan dealer. Had there been
communication between you and our dealership we would have never
authorized $85.00 for this type of issue and would have gotten
Tohatsu/Nissan involved if necessary to see a more reasonable rate out
of this dealer or found another dealer who I'm confident would have done
it at either a much lesser rate or no charge at all.

If you'd like, we'd be happy to credit your card by $42.50. Please let
me know if you would like us to do so. We apologize you had this
inconvenience with your new outboard. We wish you would have contacted
us before electing to take it to this dealer and having this bad
experience. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with
either now or in the future.

Thank you,
Chris Collins
National Sales Manager
www.onlineoutboards.com
Email: sales@onlineoutboards.com"

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 23:06:26

Pretty gracious of Online Outboards and Chris. It seems like an easy thing to get fixed via the Corp office. It really sucks that the local shop played you. It would seem that they are loosing out in the long run as I am sure you will never go back there.

Tom.

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2006 : 09:38:05

Guess we were lucky. Our Nissan 9.8 arrived last July from Porta-bote Intl. with blank pre-delivery inspection sheet and warranty card. The packaging looked original sealed from the factory. My son and I did the inspection and pre-launch servicing ourselves. And I'm sure we checked the operation of the shift lever a few times <u>without rotating the prop</u>.

Thorough reading of the Owner's Manual, etc. in spite of our excitement! There is NO caution in the manual or sticker on the motor regarding this potential problem. One would think there would be a warning tag attached to the lever.
Anyway, we had only a simple idle/stop adjustment to make, and difficulty with the crummy tilt mechanism that others have mentioned.

p.s. The nearest authorized service dealer is over 60 miles away, according to the Nissan website. Hope I won't be needing them often!

Edited by - DanM on 01/08/2006 09:43:14

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2006 : 10:06:42

"DO NOT EVER SHIFT THE GEARSHIFT LEVER WITHOUT SPINNING THE PROP"

BUT WE'RE INSTRUCTED TO DO SO IN ORDER TO TILT THE MOTOR,

Am I missing something ? Or is it too early in the AM for such heavy thoughts?

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2006 : 16:21:27

Val, you are so right! The Tilt Up section (5-6.)of the manual says "MF and EF type: With the shift lever in Neutral or Forward, fully tilt...". For the EP type, the manual goes even further: "1. Stop the engine. 2. Shift the outboard into forward." Same 1.-2. sequence on the prior page for Trim angle adjustment. No prop rotation by hand and no back pressure from a runing engine mentioned there.
True, it says to stop the engine before tilting it, and in a prior section it says to shift a running motor into neutral and idle for a few minutes before shutting it off. So you should already be in neutral before trying to tilt it or start it. But if the motor has not been previously run, how are you sure the shift lever is in it's proper position? Answer, not just by leaning back and looking at it, but by moving it with your hand! Nowhere does it say to reach back over the transom (maybe with your head in the water while someone else holds your feet) to spin the prop with one hand and try to shift the lever with your other hand. Wouldn't that look strange!

The more I thought about it today, the more I feel that was a bogus answer from Chris. More likely, it was a poor fit or lack of lubrication on the bullet. Might have been noticed if the seller had done the Pre-Delivery Inspection.

Edited by - on

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