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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Transom Scupper Repair

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/24/2006 : 23:16:44

After pumping many gallons of water out of the bilge this winter, I discovered the probable cause--a deteriorated brass tube in one of the transom scuppers. I suspect that acid rain did it in--the brass is gone on part of the bottom of the tube. I believe water that is supposed to be going through the tube is instead getting into the foam core in the transom and running down to the bottom of the hull, and then down the centerline to the bilge--LOTS of water.

My question is, has anyone removed and replaced these tubes? What is the process? They are flared on both sides, and presumably were sealed inside the flares. Thanks for any advice or experience.

Association Port Captain, Mystic, CT
Past member and DPO of C-25 #5032
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing) and posting as "Stinkpotter".

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 10:35:47

Good question, I have noticed Marlon scuppers, (like through hulls) on ebay but have not taken the time to see if they had our size. You might search ebaymotors.com

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 12:17:50

They look to be flared by squeezing them like a rivet. A call to Catalina may be in order for this.

Tom.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 12:41:10

Dave,

Nasty problem. Ebay scuppers didn't look right. Jamestown Distributors lists white acetal plastic with an inside diameter of 1- 1/2" and a length of 4-1/8". If they fit I'd imagine the old ones need to be removed by chasing around the perimeter of the flanges on either side with a chisel, working the flange towards the center and poping it out. The new ones would need be installed using 5200 or the like.

West Marine catalogue pictures plastic replacement scuppers on page 546 that sound like the ones on the JD catalogue.

It seems that catalina /catalina direct should have the lowdown on this problem,. Possibly even a replacement kit. Have you tried them?

In the near term I should think you want to slather silicone on them to stop the water intrusion.

Good luck,

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

SteveMcHugh
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 13:17:32

I had a similar problem. As a temporary fix I put gobs of sealant along the bottom of the scupper and it stopped the leak. I have not had this boat long and I don’t know how long the scuppers have been leaking. Will this do any damage to the interior of the transom?
I’ll be interested in your solution

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 13:19:13

If you had a die like you use for canvas grommets, a bolt in the center could be used to squeeze the pipe to the proper length. Perhaps Cat or Cat dir, could loan you the tool. The rest of us might be needing it soon as well. It would seem to be a good thing to rebed/ replace at some point anyway. A dremel tool and small cutoff wheel could cut the pipe in half from the inside.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 13:32:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SteveMcHugh
 I had a similar problem. As a temporary fix I put gobs of sealant along the bottom of the scupper and it stopped the leak. I have not had this boat long and I don’t know how long the scuppers have been leaking. Will this do any damage to the interior of the transom?
I’ll be interested in your solution

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There is no coring to rot in the path of the water but it can run along the top of the cabin over the quarterberth and rot you upholstery.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 22:23:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 There is no coring to rot in the path of the water but it can run along the top of the cabin over the quarterberth and rot you upholstery.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hmmm... Actually, there is a core in my transom, but it's some sort of foam. I presume the cockpit sole has a plywood core, the edge of which could be exposed to this leak.

I looked at some plastic thru-hulls with a flat flange on one side--looks like they were designed to go against a floor, but they would raise the level of the drain by the thickness of the plastic, which is not totally insignificant. I'll explore that some more and report back. I like the idea of using a cutting wheel on a Dremel to bisect the tube and pull both halves out. I suspect this project won't take shape till about April--cold weather is not the time to try to install things that require sealants--but I want to explore the options. Meanwhile, I've slathered some gook on the gap and hope to have prevented more ice blocks in the bilge.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 09:42:52

Tom, One of the catalogues mentioned the scupper being made in two pieces, one fitting inside the other, with the flanged side of the tube positioned one on either side of the transom, the excess length being trimmed to fit, and then glued in place.

I'l get to the boat today and mike the diameter of the scuppers on my '83. Hope they permit using what is on hand as replacements.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 13:27:54

Here is a kit from CD. I would give Lowel a calll and ask if it applies to the 25. Perhaps it will be cheaper as you only need the tubes and tool.

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=536

Tom.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 14:55:48

Lowell sure understands "kits".

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 15:34:50

Thanks, Tom... I dropped them an e-mail and will report back the reply.

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 21:02:11

I fix these regularly by making a tube of fiberglass and resin around a pipe with wax paper. Then hole saw a hole that clears away all the damaged stuff and fits the tube. Bond it in with epoxy on both ends, sand everything smooth, paint the exoxy.Dave

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2006 : 14:49:28

My solution for leaking,clogging scuppers and to drain the cockpit quickly was to seal the through hull drains and cut an elongated hole at the transom scupper location.The hole is about 8" wide by 1 1/2" high flush with the cockpit sole.I used a hole saw,a Dremel,a drum sander in a drill,lots of epoxy and gelcoat.This may sound a little radical but it actually came out really nice with never a leaf problem and 4-5 times the draining capacity.

Edited by - on

mashedcat
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2006 : 14:59:06

Craig, can you post a picture?

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2006 : 15:24:59

Dave

I'm a lot better at working on my boat than on my computer(I can barely type this sentence)but I have some instructions that I got off the testing page and I will try to post a photo soon.

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2006 : 23:32:29

Here are some so-so pictures of my cockpit drain.

Thanks to Don Lucier for the easy to understand photo posting instructions.

Edited by - ct95949 on 01/27/2006 23:38:06

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2006 : 09:47:00

Your welcome, Craig.

That is one functional scupper you made...kudos!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2006 : 18:43:22

Wow, Craig! There's something to think about!

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jaclasch
Navigator

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USA
104 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2006 : 19:29:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ct95949
 Here are some so-so pictures of my cockpit drain.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6df06b3127cce96b31b912ee200000016100AZM2bFszYsWNA" border="0">

Thanks to Don Lucier for the easy to understand photo posting instructions.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Craig,
That is a great approach! I have some questions:
1. How did you finish the inside of the opening?
2. How did you cut the opening? It looks really professional.
3. Is the bottom of the opening flush with the bottom of the cockpit, thus eliminating the small step that collects crud because the last little bit cannot drain?

James

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2006 : 10:08:31

James
I started by cutting two 1 1/2" holes with a hole saw then connected them with a Dremel,the plywood and fiberglass are pretty thin.I stuffed the hollow cavitys on the sides and bottom with newspaper so the epoxy would not flow into the quarter berth then placed thickend epoxy at least 1" deep in the cavity.I put two layers of masking tape at the top of the hole then poured epoxy in from the upper gudgeon access plate.The perfect tool for sanding all this epoxy(and gelcoat)was a 1 1/2" drum sander with coarse and fine cylinders.I used a thin gelcoat that would flow and brush on with several applications and sanding to get it just right.When I cut and sanded the hole I sloped it out slightly from the lowest spot in the cockpit so there would be no question of drainage.

If you're planning to do this or any other sizeable epoxy project do yourself a favor and get the following:West Systems manual,large jugs of epoxy and hardeners(slow and fast)with metering pumps,and 2 or 3 of West thickening agents.These have been by far my most used products for repairing and upgrading my boat.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 11:18:03

Neat looking scupper C T, but will it pass valuable objects along with the water? My then 4 yr old threw several things of value over the side,( he was into SPLASH at the time)

I wonder what he would use the elongated scupper for.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 13:13:24

Val,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Neat looking scupper C T, but will it pass valuable objects along with the water?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think there are snap-in plastic screens for soffit vents which are about the same size and shape as the oversized oval scupper shown. (Nicely done by the way!) One possibility would be to start such a project by getting one of those soffit screens, and then size the scupper to fit it. The screen could then be snapped in or out, depending on the situation. I could also imagine sheet tails sneaking out, and finding their way to the prop. It wouldn't be the first time...

-- Leon Sisson

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 13:40:41

I YI YI Leon I didn't even think about lines in the prop. You're right of course, I just visualized the pump handle fitting through there.

Don't know about the screen being the way to go though. Things might clog there and at the least opportune time. A rubber flap on the outboard side fastened atop the scuppter might do.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 17:25:52

You can see in one of photos a traveler line sneaking out but when I'm sailing my Honda gas jug sits in front of the hole-it's the perfect size for that spot.I thought if the cockpit flooded I'd simply set the jug on the seat,I guess almost anything could be used to block the hole as long as it could be removed quickly. I like the screen idea but I also like how giant mulberry and eucalyptus leaves float right out when I wash the cockpit.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 19:17:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...gas jug sits in front of the hole-it's the perfect size for that spot. I thought if the cockpit flooded I'd simply set the jug on the seat,I guess almost anything could be used to block the hole as long as it could be removed quickly.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If your cockpit flooded deep enough to make you wish nothing were blocking that huge scupper, I expect the gas tank would float out of the way -- problem solved!

I quite agree about the fallen leaves issue. My 1-1/2" scuppers with grates get clogged with wind born debris too.

Leaving one of the grates off helps a lot.

-- Leon Sisson

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