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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Propane Tank

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Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2006 : 22:45:55

528, do I understand you to say you installed your propane bottle under the sink inside the boat? Seems to me a little dangerous if there is a leak.

Edited by - on

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2006 : 08:43:41

My rational is that a leak is a remote possibility. Murphy can rupture a line beyond all the safety equip if he so chooses. The small canister does not have the continuous flow potential a home does. Sitting on 6 gallons of gas while helming gives me greater pause. I have a great sense of self preservation and would not attempt if I felt this to pose great risk. I am aware of the properties of the propane and any combustable anywhere on the boat has risk. Has anyone ever lit the can of Right Guard in college or the hairspray in a potato launcher? This thread will probably "Lightup" with comments now.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2006 : 14:54:39

528, OK, I can buy that. You use the small propane bottles as are used on a Coleman stove?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2006 : 16:37:29

Dave, those of us with early hull numbers were equipped with a rinky dink system that was trashed, but it did have a 1/8 inch quick couple that could be cannibalized for use with coleman cartridges. This works well and allows the coleman cartridge to be stored in the fuel locker where it is safe.

I find it no great shake to hook up when using the stove and feel slightly better about the coleman cartridge living outside the boat when not in use.

1/8 couplers are not that popular but can be found online. The threads on the male fitting screws into some of the valves available for the coleman cartridges.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2006 : 18:49:40

Frank, your cheapest solution, with no mods to the boat, is this little adapter Wil pointed out:

You disconnect your big propane tank, attach this in its place, and then screw on a one-pound Coleman fuel canister. I've had one for years as a back-up for the tank on my camper and for my grill at home. Nothing like being half-way through grilling a steak when the gas runs out.

It should run you $20- $25.

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2006 : 13:51:47

Tom,
Here is the pics. of the OPD valve I installed on my ten pounder.

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2006 : 14:13:50

Bubba, what is the Adapter you use called? Do you have a source?
Looks like a perfect solution.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2006 : 19:41:08

As far as I know they're just called propane bottle adapters. What you're looking for has female fittings on both ends. There are also adapters made to allow stoves that normally use the disposable bottles to be hooked up to the big tanks. That one will have a male fitting on one end called a POL - you <u>don't </u>want that one.

Here are a couple of links to the kind of propane adapter you're looking for:

[url="http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0030006510811a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnString=hasJS=true&_D%3AhasJS=+&QueryText=propane+adapter&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.22&Go.x=18&Go.y=10&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=propane+adapter&noImage=0&returnPage=search-results1.jsp"]Cabellas adapter[/url]

[url="http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|301237|322409&id=59388"]Defender adapter[/url]

Just remembered I'd found the picture in my earlier post at [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/28153"]West Marine[/url]

Edited by - Bubba on 02/24/2006 19:51:12

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2006 : 07:01:48

I finally got around to fixing my problem with the old propane tank. I took my non-OPD valve tank to the local propane dealer and he ordered a new OPD valve that would fit my small #5 tank. They removed the LP from the tank installed the new OPD valve and refilled the tank $45.

Tip; for those living in South Carolina. I was told by a LP dealer that South Carolina had resented the OPD law and that they could refill the old type tanks. SC is not to far from where I live in Georgia, but I decided to have the valve replaced anyway just in case I need to have the tank refilled sometime while on a trip far away from SC.

Edited by - on

fjm0008
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2006 : 13:19:22

I just recently purchased a 2001 250 and when I opened the starboard lazarette the tank was missing. The boat has a Seaward stove. I have the adapter for Coleman canisters but the warning on the tank box states do not use propane fuel? Can you use Coleman propane on the Seaward with the existing lines and adapter? Thanks. Jack

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2006 : 20:06:01

Jack,
Welcome aboard. I was down on my boat today and opened the Propane locker, there was a little sign on mine that read not to use butane. (Keep in mind I have a propane system). Guess it all depends on what you have. You could have a butane stove, I'm not familiar with them. Maybe someone more familiar with the different type stoves can chime in and help. If you have a propane stove I don't see a problem using the small containers. I believe there are some on the forum that do use them.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 06/17/2006 21:32:03

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2006 : 02:06:04

Some boats came with a Natural Gas stove. Might be what you have. Not sure what the diff is? I know converting home appliances to propane is easy.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2006 : 08:39:02

My knowledge of propane, butane, LNG etc. is very rudimentary but I'll take a stab at this....

Propane's boiling point requires 128 lbs of compression to hold it as a liquid at normal temperatures.

Butane on the other hand requires very little pressure.

Because the butane boiling point at 31F is considerably higher than propane at -43, butane begins to have a problem boiling (turning to a gas state for burning) at temps much below 31F.

Obviously then, propane requires a much sturdier tank to hold pressures of 128 lbs to keep it liquid compared to the very slight pressure needed to keep butane liquid.

The problem is that pure butane ceases to be effective as a fuel below 31 deg as it won't vaporize so hybrids of propane and butane are contrived.

The original rinky dink under the galley butane cannister arangement likely used a close to pure butane. The canister was made of light materiel and obviously had very low pressure. The oriface for the stove burner would be large because the pressures on the system were so small.

Those of us who converted to coleman cartriges are likely using a hybrid fuel (mixture of butane and propane to lower the boiling point but having a higher tank pressure than pure butane) hence why the adapter to the cannister must have a very small oriface so that it will work with the butane stove. It is that very small oriface in the adapter that is doing flow regulation compared to pressure regulation, even then... I can only open my valve to its first position.

Systems designed for propane, have pressure regulators that reduce the 128 lbs tank pressure to a working pressure around 5psi.

Finally to the point, it could be the hybrid coleman cartridges with a pressure of less than 72 psi don't provide a pressure suitable to the regulator for it to function properly and may actually yield a higher working pressure than the propane system and will overwhelm the stove and its oriface.

It could be, if the adapter that connects a coleman cartridge to the system has a very small oriface, that flow regulation might allow it to work with the system though line pressures would increase and pose some risk. I don't leave a cartridge hooked up after use... they are stored in fuel locker.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 06/18/2006 08:57:26

Quentin
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2006 : 21:55:00

I have limited knowledge on cooking stoves and butane systems however I have 32 years experience working with LPG systems for engines. My day job includes conducting propane safety classes for forklift operators and forklift mechanics.

Like many others, I also removed the princess butane system and converted to the small propane tanks. 1995 Hull # 153

Note the princess systems had a built in pressure regulator that was also removed and discarded with the butane canister holder assembly. Thus the original system was not designed to operate at butane (bottle) pressure. That including hoses quick disconnects and stove valve.

Trust me on this one; converting the princess stove to operate on higher-pressure propane <u>without a pressure regulator </u>is not a good idea.

I purchased my regulator and a brass ball valve from a RV store. Later I found this link for a marine regulator. http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=93321F I should have install the marine one, It’s now on my to-do list.

Always, use sealer on pipe thread and finish up by checking your installations with bubble soap. Propane is heavier than air it will collect inside our boats in addition to fire hazards, propane can deplete oxygen available for breathing, the bad smelling odorant may not be detected by one sleeping.

Arlyn's suggestion to remove the tank and store it topside is a good one.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 09:01:59

Quentin, I don't question that propane should use pressure regulation prior to flow regulation for flame adjustment. My problem has been employing it.

I've made the flow regulation work and even bought the fairly expensive coleman cartridge regulator but have yet to adapt fittings to make it work with the stove.

I'll take another go at it.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 22:45:15

After discarding the, in my opinion, useless, dangerous and temperamental rinky dink butane burner with great satisfaction (came with the ‘95 WB hull #151) I followed Arlyn's example by using the quick coupling rescued from the old set-up to attach a small regular (1lbs) propane bottle without adding a flow/pressure regulator or anything else.

To eliminate and reduce risk I installed a $260CAN gas detector with a cabled remote sniffer installed directly below the gas bottle just inside the galley's cupboard to early detect any escaping gas.

We have used it now 3 to 5 times daily for several weeks and it has worked excellent without flaring or any other problems whatsoever. The flame is constant from the time it is turned turn on/off. To play it safe we, just like Arlyn, remove the bottle and store it overnight in the fuel locker although we did forget several times while staying on board overnight.

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