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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Long distance travel

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1332 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/05/2006 : 17:32:47

We live in Vancouver, Canada. We are, already for some time, contemplating taking the boat across Canada, do lake sailing along the way, and summer sail Ontario's Thousand Islands, Trend Canal System, Rideau Waterway as well as Lake Ontario.

The biggest hurtle for us seems to be the Rocky Mountains and trailoring the boat for such a long distance. I would value your opinion regarding:
1) type tow vehicle, safety equipment and whatever else required for 6000 plus mile trip.
2) Does anyone have experience sleeping at night and (nap time) on the boat while traveling?
3) Would a truck/camper/C250WB trailer combination be the best or what would you recommend...
4) Does traveling such great distance over sometimes rough roads affect the boat/mast/equipment or anything else
5) What, in your opinion, would be the pros and cons of selling the boat in Ontario
6) Are electrical storms a real danger to our C250 WB ungrounded sailboats, Ontario receives its share of storms and so do the prairies. What preventative steps can be taken if any…

Any and all help/suggestions/recommendations are welcome

Henk & Johanna
"Floating", a few off your "barnacles".
"Someday Lady" '95 C250WB #151 ('03 - 2016)
"Sea ya" 30ft Bayliner (04-2018 - 09-2018)
"Mariah" '96 C250WB #191 (05-2019 - 15-05-2023)
"Lady J" '00 C250WK #499 (05-2021 - 09-2022)

Edited by - on

Waterboy
Navigator

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USA
204 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2006 : 21:47:45

Zeil,

We've taken a C250WB from Arizona to Lousiana to Chesapeke Bay to Lake Superior to Oregon ... and recently returned from sailing the Sea of Cortez and are back in Oregon. See pics via my earlier recent posts.

Currently, I use an older Ford 350 dually with a pop-up camper, although I have towed with my half-ton. I'm not sure what you mean by safety equipment, but we have flares, reflectors, multiple fire extinguishers and of course cells phones.

Two summers ago, we used the boat on trailer as an RV trailer. Beyond the usual limitations of the 250 as an aquatic cruiser, ingress and egress on the trailer were the issue here, We used a small aluminum step ladder which was locked to the trailer along with the gin pole, mast crutch etc.

Regarding rough roads ... 'rough' is relative. In Baja we ran across washboards of a magnitude previously unkown to me (having driven on farm and logging roads all my adult life). I was concerned about the hull during some driving, but they're pretty stout, and we just slowed down. Way down. Once we turned back (on the way to Puertocitos) and it cost us three or four days travel time, but we saw other cools thing on the alternate route. Make sure your bunks/rollers are supporting the boat evenly. Make sure you got great brakes! I intsalled a four wheel disc system from Champion Trailer. The boom was inside the cabin (can be lashed along stanchions if the boat is to be used as a RV), and the mast supported by the mast crutch at the stern, wrapped in old life jackets on the bow pulpit, and supported by a homemade jig at the step. Not pretty but functional.

Regarding selling your boat in Ontario, I have no idea.

The issue of electrical storms is significant. Currently we do not sail in areas where these are a big deal, but I subscribe to the theory of making the boat as poor a ground as possible. Search the forum for more info.

One issue you do not ask about is the ability to step and unstep your mast quickly and proficiently. I strongly suggest you get good at this. I do so alone frequently but extra hands help. Its not difficult with a gin pole (I use the jib halyard), it looks even easier with the newer trailers, but its not something you want to figure out at a crowded ramp, or adjacent multimillion dollar yachts in the marina.

I would be happy to answer any questions more fully, and encourage you to embark on your journey.

Greg C250WB #48 Sabrosa

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1332 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2006 : 23:57:08

Thank you Greg for the detailed, useful and helpful reply... I have many more questions and, if you don't mind, will formulate these in the next little while.

Thank you in advance to anyone responding to my long distance travel questions

Greg... why do you subscribe to making or leaving the boat a poor ground.

Henk

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 09:51:29

Henk, I've many over the road as well as cruising miles on my 250 wb and it is a great trailer cruiser. I trailer with an extended cab half ton pickup with a mid size V8 and it does well. The previous 350 motor was slightly better than the current 327.

The 250 wb has a lot of neat trailer cruising design. Sitting close to the ground and with the open transom and great swim ladder, access is easy, I've never needed an additional ladder and have used the boat as a camper on the road a good bit. The outboard can be left on the transom.

I've had several flat tires (usually ruined) and feel more comfortable carrying two spares.

I wrote a piece on lightning a few years ago that you might find [url="http://stewartfam.net/arlyn/lightning2.html"]interesting reading[/url]

I'd encourage adding the North Channel to the cruise plans. It offers arguably the finest fresh water sailing in the world.

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Waterboy
Navigator

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USA
204 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 15:00:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zeil
 why do you subscribe to making or leaving the boat a poor ground?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mostly because of Arlyn's article. And ruined flat tires Arlyn? Like this?

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 15:12:36

The key to any trip of that length is an adequate tow vehicle. How heavy is your boat, motor, rigging, trailer, luggage, tools, etc (they all come off your tow rating)?

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1332 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 16:56:18

Arlyn: Thank you for your comments, destinations and vehicle description.

Do you have a tow gear setting on the truck or extra heavy springs? What happened when you blew tires? Were you travelling at higher speeds, bad tires, overloaded?

We certainly will investigate the North Channel. Sounds very exiting. We'll read your very informative web-site in more detail. You are a great source of wonderful information and helpful hints. It is much appreciated

Lightning or even the threat of it concerns and scares me deeply even to the point of not wanting to go to areas where storms are prevalent.

Do I over-react and is my fear justified? Should I change the mast from aluminum to wood etc? Hang 20 battery cables connected to the rigging overboard or non at all?

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1332 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 17:15:56

Bert: What would you say, given the weight of a fully equipped '95 Swing-keel water-ballast Catalina 250 on a, came with the boat, two axle Trail-Rite trailer is an adequate tow vehicle.

Consider on-board food for one week, normal amount of tools, spare parts & tire, a Back Water 7.5ft 80 lbs dingy with oars, 2 hp Honda 40lbs etc.

Then... enough oomph, up and down, to do reasonable mountain driving and have good fuel economy. The truck or suburban to carry mostly 2 people and either a smallish camper or camping gear, lawn chairs, etc.

Edited by - on

Waterboy
Navigator

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USA
204 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 19:52:35

Here's the rig we used:

It's a 2wd '91 Ford F350 dually I got for $5K with about 80K miles on it. Popup camper was an additional $4K.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 21:50:12

Yes, the truck has a tow position and it is used. I've not added more springs but they could be a little stiffer. The previous two GM trucks were stiffer.

A flat on a dual axle trailer will usually result in the tire being ruined because a low inflation condition can't be felt at the wheel. The first indication of a problem is when the flat tire distorts beyond salvation.

Ligtning concern should be held in context of the stats... and they overwhelmingly favor a sailboat being safer than an open boat. Florida usually has as many fatalities as the rest of the country combined and that number is relatively low.

No one can say with any certainty what to do... but IMHO, not going sailing is not an option.

If you need help in developing a float plan for the North Channel, I'd be glad to help. One option would be to put in on the western end and making your way all the way to the Trent Sevren waterway. Our Association Commodore I think covered much of this water on his cruise a few years ago from Chicago to the Bahamas.

I'm fairly familiar with the North Channel and the Western side of the Georgian Bay but have not cruised the Eastern shore line.

The whole area of the North Channel and Georgian bay is an anchorage paradise for those who don't like marina's. I'm not saying it is a primitive area, there are adequate stops and facilities, but the whole area is refreshingly free from over civilization.

I usually trailer at 62-65 mph and think the primary cause of trailer tire failures is tire fatigue from setting in one position. If we were more disciplined, I expect we'd block up the axles and rest the tires. I'm guilty of not doing it and likely have paid the price several times.

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tizer2
1st Mate

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Canada
33 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 23:23:49

While it is true that southern Ontario experiences a high level of electrical storm activity, in some areas it is more prevalent than others. The areas you plan to travel, such as the Rideau waterway, outside Ottawa, the Trent Canal system and the Thousand islands area of the St. Lawrence are not considered hotspots. Areas where lightning strikes are more frequent include Lake St. Clair, Georgian Bay and Algonquin Park. You may want to visit the following Meteorological Sevice Canada website for detailed information (also, a good website to bookmark for marine forecasts) http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/lightning/provinces_e.html
If you decide to come to Ontario, please feel free to contact me, if you need any local publications. I sail in the Bay of Quinte, which you would pass through between the Trent waterway and the Thousand Islands. I'd be happy to pass on any information I could. With respect to selling your boat in Ontario, there is certainly a healthy boater's community here, and several major markets, however the Catalina 250 is relatively unknown. But, in general I would say, if it is priced appropriately, it will sell. Good luck with your planning - Ontario is a great place to sail and very hospitable.

Edited by - tizer2 on 04/06/2006 23:36:25

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1332 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2006 : 16:02:22

Cheryl: Thank you for your informative posting regarding regional lightning and information sources

Thank you also for the warm invitation to stop by. Once our plans are formulated to travel by truck/boat to the East (Ontario) we would love to take time sailing the Bay of Quinte... even the name sounds exiting!!

Lightning in Atlantic Canada, after checking it out, proves to be a super informative web-site and... I would suggest you to consider posting this under a new topic on this forum. I’m sure that there are others who have concerns and want to know more about this phenomena

You mentioned that the Catalina’s are relatively unknown in your area. What would be reason for this? Perhaps we should change this by obtaining an exclusive dealership form Catalina and sell in the northern parts of Canada while at the same time making a little bit of pocket money (just kidding)

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2006 : 20:06:24

Henk, Can't give you an answer without the weights. I'm not that familiar with the C250, or what it's trailer would weigh. What does everybody else use as a tow vehicle?

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1332 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2006 : 00:33:03

Bert: From all sources on this forum I understand the weight of trailer, boat, equipment, food, usual tools, dingy, 2 outboards, fuel, water, one weeks food stuff, two anchors & ground tackle, misc. spare tire,(did I forget anything?) to be around 5000 pounds plus 10% for good measure which amounts to 5500 lb. Say the total for argument sake is 6000 lb. Count on an average of two people occupying the truck.

What would be your choice of tow vehicle, size engine, gas or diesel, single or double axle, special features such as tow packages.

I want to make the right choice and value the opinions of my fellow sailors a lot more than the people selling the trucks and happen to have the one just for me

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2006 : 12:23:02

"Say the total for argument sake is 6000 lb."

C25 swinger is about 4,400 +- (dry and empty). EZ-Loader trailer, about 1,500... so you're at about 6,000 lbs 'light'. Add another 500-700 lbs for gear and you'll be very close to 6,500 or better.

As I recall, the last time I went across the scales, I was at 13,870 gross. My diesel 4x4 weighs about 7,400 lbs, so I was at about 6,500 on the trailer.

If I was buying today, here's what I'd get.

Ford F-35O 4X4 Powerstroke diesel.
Manual Transmission.
Dual Rears + Towing Package.
Crew cab with short bed.
Canopy so you have protected storage for your other 'stuff'

With the stock 7,000 lb trailer, I put everything heavy (as is practical) in the truck bed and leave the boat as light as possible.

I've also beefed up my trailer a bit. Replaced all bolts with stainless, new coupler, put brakes on both axles, rebuilt the hubs, and purchased the heaviest-duty tires I could find that would fit the stock 15" rims.

I carry plenty of tools, grease gun, tub of grease, spare wheel bearings, jacks etc. If I was towing a lot, I'd buy a spare hub too.

Your most likely trailering problems will be tires, wheel bearings, brakes. 'Religous maintenance', frequent inspections and prudent driving will greatly reduce chance of the above.

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2006 : 20:00:02

Zeil, The truck in the above post will do a fine job, although a bit over kill for what you want it to do. Having said that, this fall I'm going to get the Chevy version of the above (only with the Allison auto trans) to haul a heavy 5th wheel...up to 15000# GW.

Back to you. You need to decide what type vehicle you want and can use when not towing...big SUV like a Suburban, or a pick up. They now make 'heavy duty' 1/2 tons that will pull your rig. I have a standard 2005 Chevy with which I pull a 5500# travel trailer. It's rated to tow 7200#, but in the RV towing community (due to huge frontal areas) we normally tow only 80% of rated capacity. Even so, I would not want to tow your rig with my truck. If it was my decision, I'm partial to trucks, so I'd get a beefed up 1/2 ton or a 3/4 ton. The 1/2 tons vary a great deal from model to model and brand to brand. Any 3/4 ton would do fine...GM's 3/4s, even with the base V8, can tow a load of nearly 10000# and all the bigger engines and the diesel can tow 12000#.

One item you really need to check is the receiver you have on your vehicle. With my factory hitch, I can have a max of 600# tongue weight and max of 5000# gross tow weight without using a weight distribution hitch. With the WD hitch the weights go to 1500# and 12000# respectively. Having said that, a previous poster said you cannot use a WD system with surge brakes...can't address that, I use electric brakes on the travel trailer. Also, be sure you get the 'trailer tow package.' It includes, hitch, seven plug connector, trans cooler, locking differential, and more.

One last comment on ClamBeach's post. Don't skimp on your tow vehicle, there are those who will tell you it's fine to tow these rigs with a V6 SUV/pick up...not a good idea. You will never hear anybody say or complain that they have "Too much truck."

There is a section on the RV Forum that pertains to towing and tow vehicles. Both can be found here (scroll down): http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm

Have fun, I love looking for trucks!

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