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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Cross Sheeting & upgrades

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/19/2006 : 20:43:05

I am thinking that we are going to start cross sheeting the genoa sheets. I think having the weight on the high side of the boat is really important for us on the Capri 25. I have 3 regular crew members and myself and could reall tell a big difference when the trimmer had to get off the rail and adjust trim on the low side.

On another note I have been having problems with the bridle to the spinnaker pole, the downhaul and the topping lift are getting twisted up after the take down, and at the windward mark is the worst time to be messing around with the pole. I am wanting to attach the pole right up the mast, this might be a problem with having to attach the guy to the pole, but the downhaul and topping lift could stay atached. This would also free up the possibility of having to set the pole on the port side of the boat if we had to tack after the mark and set the spinnaker on Starboard.

What are your setups, and how do they work out for you?

C.S. McKillip
Ericson 33

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2006 : 22:03:29

There was a good story on cross sheeting in sailing world about 18 mos ago. There are a number of j24's I know that do it, I'll ask them what their setup is. In a heavy breeze, you are correct to keep the weight up high as long as possible.

regarding your spin pole....I'm not sure I understand what is getting twisted. I've done my share of bow work and haven't had a problem,

What is your exact process step by step. It might be a matter of faciliatating line organization with a bungee around the mast and some swivel shackles etc.

dw

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 00:06:57

The Guy runs from the back ratchet block outside of the stantions attaches to a holt Snap shackle (twingers)Up to the front of the bow pulpit at this point the guy attaches to the end of the spinnaker pole the pole is set to the starboard side of the pulpit then back around the front of the pulpit around the stays and back to the companion way. The sheet runs from the ratchet block outside of the stantions attaches to the Holt snap shackle then over the lifelines to the companion way. I take the spinaker halyard around the forstay around the side stays and down to the companionway. I have a bag that mounts in the companionway for the spinnaker.

Downhaul is attached to the bridle on the pole, and the topping lift is left on the spinaker mast loop untill the mark.

Set the pole is called for Fordeck attaches the topping lift to the bridle, the pole is raised, we round the mark, and at this time is when the pole gets twisted. Fordeck is doing some thing wrong. this should only take 45 seconds to do, but it seems that everytime it happens it takes half the downwind leg to get it fixed. Last time I told them to just throw the pole down below.
I guess it just takes practice, and lots of it.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 06:31:00

Four additional questions for you -

Are your spin sheets and guys tied or shackled
Are all of the shackles including those on the pole swivels?
What are the lines getting twisted on?
How far down does your T-track for the pole car go on the mast

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 10:19:57

All of the spinaker sheets have snap shackles including the downhaul and the toppinglift, Its not the sheets that are getting twisted but the two wires on the bridle attached to the pole.

The t-track goes up around 7 feet.

On our spinaker pole there are 4 wire lines, One is for the topping lift, One is for the downhaul, Then there are the two wires for the release of the ends of the pole. It simply is a huge mess of wire. I was thinking of getting some really thin pvc pipe that is a little bit bigger in Dia. of the pole, Ripping it down the middle and attaching it to the pole (about a 1'-6" section that floats in the middle of the pole) then attach the wire pole ends to the ends of the pvc, This way you could pull or push to release the ends. The pvc would thin be wrapped in a sunbrella material and the whole mess sewed onto the spinaker pole. I think this would free up two of the lines. I am also wanting to replace the wire bridles with some high tech Vectran, Downhaul being Green, and Topping lift red, I think the problem is that Fordeck is getting the bridle twisted before he even puts the lines for the topping lift of Downhaul on.

The PVC thing is not my idea, Our local Sailmaker has this setup on his Merit 25, At the gybe its a simple forward motion to release the guy, back to release the pole from the mast. I think it might be confusing at first, but it is already havic upfront.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 10:28:59

I got the problem... let me write it all up...by the way, on short legs, you can leave the pole up with the bridle wrapped like that...but I think I have the answer

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 13:11:27

I cover a lot here…maybe more than you are asking for. I essentially address three areas, they are as follows in order top to bottom
1. How we handle the kite maneuvering.
2. Your pole mod idea
3. Cross sheeting

CS – This is what we do on the Evelyn 32-2. The only difference is our launch point. We launch from just forward of the shrouds and have the ability to launch from port or starboard. This process came along gradually after sailing on other boats, seeing what we did wrong and tweaking things to fit our boat and or crew. It allows for windward takedowns on either the port or the starboard side. I’ve replayed events over in my head and can’t seem to find out what is causing your twist, other than the way your bowman is stowing the pole after your first douse.

I know you know how to sail downwind, so this isn’t meant as a lesson in Kite Basics. It might help tip you off as to where you guy/gal is erring, or give you a different way to look at things. There are also about 300 non racers looking at this saying HUH? Cross sheet what, aren’t bridles for horses. You can take any, all or none of it for what it is worth.
I DIGRESS….
In any scenario, it is extremely important that the guy on the bow or the guy in the pit/hole etc have the uncanny ability to mentally overhaul a line while on the upwind leg without actually going out to the bow. He needs to run his lines, topping lift included as well. Just like any kite needs to be packed or get his signed off. If it goes up bad – it is his fault. Same goes for his lines and gear, once the reason you are twisting is identified, he needs to make sure it doesn’t reoccur. I digress, but in short, each crew member is responsible for the upkeep of their area, you pay for everything, but they help do the work. I have a long story of how we got our bowman into this habit, but I’ll save that for later. Back to the topic… Here is what we do. (I’ve tried to consider that you are sailing with about 4-6 less guys than we have.

Upwind – 
The pole is on the mast at deck level with the outboard end peaking through the pulpit.
Jib sheets are run over the top of the pole in front of the topping lift.
Downhaul is attached
Topping lift is attached – (I think the un-attach/reattach method is where you might be getting tangled up) I know you are looking at this saying “How am I going to tack quickly after we drop the kite?” I’ll get to that. But when not flying the kite It is run back along the pole and tucked into a small bungee line arong the base of the mast.
On a Tack, the bowman helps the sail around while he crosses.
Spin sheets are run, guy is lifted over the pulpit and preset into the pole.

Lay line – 

Tactician determines if we are indeed on the lay line
Downhaul is released (un-cleat) – Pole goes up on command. This requires bow guy to raise it at the mast first, and then use topping lift. Jib sheet is still on top of the pole and outside of topping lift. You’ll need to ease your weather sheet on the jib as well. Once the pole is up while on the layline you need to have someone tend the topping lift in case you fall down below the mark and have to tack.

After the pole is up, you can pre-feed the foot of the kite around the front of your sail by bringing in on the guy. After the hoist the fordeck guy needs to roll the jib up and put it forward. Jib sheet still in position.

Gybing 
On lighter air days, the bow guy can quickly grab the other jib sheet and lay it over the pole while gybing end for end. The down haul should be eased, but the topping lift on. When it’s blowing like stink, leave it off the pole until the last gybe. Then untie put it over the pole and retie it. What this does is create the means to easily drop the shoot and just lay the pole on the deck and you can tack clean over the top of it.

Douse 

As the boat approaches the leeward mark we bring the jib back on the side of the boat it is going up on. This is when the foredeck guy needs to make sure the jib sheet is laid properly over the pole and will not get fouled. After that, we put the jib up a third, and then as it gets closer the entire thing goes up. Everyone needs to know their job here. It can get hairy.

The person holding the guy must let it run free, if there is a different person trimming the sheet he needs to haul it in. Once you have the majority of the foot the halyard is dropped and the kite can come into your cabin (assuming that is where you go with it). Now you have to clean up and prepare to tack. You should do this regardless of tactics because you’re decision can change quickly. Most of this needs to occur simultaneously. 1. Someone needs to drop the outboard end of the pole, ideally with the foredeck guys hand on it. 2. Fore Decker has to drop the inboard end to the deck at the mast. 3. Topping lift needs to be brought back and tucked in very important to keep it clear. 4. Guy collecting the kite needs to a. Make sure it is in the bag and b. If you brought it down on the side opposite the launch needs to connect the sheets and the halyard and clips them all together and let them go in this instance, the bowman needs to pop the guy off the pole too. Bringing the sail down on the wrong side is rare on Capri and small boat windward/leeward, but can be more common with windward takedowns, with gates and with unconventional courses. Concurrently, the foredeck guy needs to check the jib sheet and make sure it is clear. and announce that the bow is ready to tack.

Tack the boat - bowman fends for himself – best spot is to go under the jib as he helps it around.

Cleanup part two 

99.9% of the time you are done. The chute is in the bag, the guy is still in the pole and you’re lines are clean. The other .1% of the time you will now have a few lines that are every which way but where they need to be. The first obligation is to get the boat up to speed and settle in on this leg. If you are on a course where the sheets and halyard ended up on the wrong side of the boat, pull on what will be the sheet on the next leg(remember they are connected), allowing the guy hand halyard to make their way around the boat and sails. When you get them to the other side, clean them up and stow them for the downwind. You should be able to do this from the High Side. Sometimes you need to be on a specific tack to make this happen. If that is the case, just wait until you are up to speed. The Foredeck guy (bowman, I know I used them interchangeably) Might need to put the guy back into the pole. Again remember to bring it over the top of the pulpit, not through it. (The evenlyn has a slotted pulpit, makes this really easy to do)

pole adjustments 

You might already be doing a ton of these things or almost all of them. The main ingredient here is not taking the pole off the mast and not uncleating the topping lift. As for your plastic deal….I think it might be a bit overkill…and will be more hindrance than you can ever think of. I personally like using one line or coated wire long enough to just barely get your hand in between it and the pole. Grab it and twist your wrist both ends should pop. If you are going end for end on the gybes this will work just fine. I’d also measure your bridles, when hanging from the center of the topping lift you should have no more than a 45 degree angle at the corners of your pole. If you have more than that degree, your putting undue load on it, and you are leaving extra length to get twisted.

Here is my friends brief blurb on cross sheeting. 
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yes, this is how we trim 80% of the time. The big difference is that the sheets and winches are on top of the cabin, not in the cockpit. If that is the case you just cross from the jib block to the opposite winch on the cabin top.

For a cockpit cross sheet, unless class rules dictate differently, it is normally best to set up cheek blocks behind the main winches to allow the sheet to run unimpeded from the low side to the high side. This is how the Mumm was set up.

Without the cheek block, you will probably need a fairlead ahead of the winch that will allow the sheet to cross the cockpit.

The only other option, which is way old school, is to tack on the low side winch, and then remove wraps until there is only one on that winch and then cross to the high-side, wrap the winch and trim. The big downside here is that it can get kind of messy during a tack.

Good luck,

Chip
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hope any of this even helps you a bit

Edited by - Champipple on 04/20/2006 17:43:47

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