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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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singaporesam
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/30/2002 : 09:59:15

Two items I need info on.
1. What vehicle should you have and with what engine to pull a 250WK if you can't use a pickup truck?
2. If properly upgraded, can a 250WK handle off shore cruising for a few weeks at a time?
Any info would be greatly appreciated. Reason I can't use a pickup truck is that when I retire and move to Mexico next year they won't allow me to bring down a pickup truck. The cruising part is explained as I plan on cruising from San Blas south about 80 to 100 miles to Puerto Vallarta and south towards Manzanillo(in and around that vicinity).
Thanks
Singaporesam

Singaporesam

Edited by - on

jm
Captain

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Canada
290 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2002 : 13:50:30

I guess you have no choice but to use a Tijuana Taxi..
<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="c: ijuana.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2002 : 19:33:35

Just a quick glance at the sales info tells me you will need a vehicle that can pull 6000 lbs. Allowing for gear, suplies ect. Stay away from any short wheelbase SUVs. Full size van might work tow package needed. Chev Suburban full size. Whatever you pick it will need to be substancial.

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2002 : 19:57:59

"Reason I can't use a pickup truck is that when I retire and move to Mexico next year they won't allow me to bring down a pickup truck." - Singaporesam

If I understand your predicament correctly, the Mexican government won't allow you to keep a U.S. titled vehicle in Mexico so you are looking for a way to tow your boat when you move/retire. Can't you tow your boat down to Mexico with your current tow vehicle, then bring it back to the U.S. and sell it. Then you could find another tow vehicle in Mexico.

Another option might be to sell your U.S. vehicle before you move, then rent a Uhaul/Ryder full size pickup to tow the boat to Mexico.

Have you considered selling your boat here in the U.S. and then buying another boat when you get to Mexico. If the exchange rate is tipped in your favor, you may end up with more boat for less money.

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2002 : 22:19:15

Off-shore for a few weeks... By that, do you mean over the horizon for a few weeks? If so, then I'd say, emphatically, NO. The C-250 is designed for coastal cruising where, if very nasty weather develops, you can run for cover. The general definition of "off-shore" is "nowhere to hide" and no reliable weather window. I may hear some strong arguments here, but the weakeness include (1) the open transom, (2) the hatches and pop-top designed to keep rain out (only), (3) the lightly stayed rig with light-duty chainplates, (4) the transom-hung rudder), (5) no bridge deck, (6) low ballast ratio, (7)... I'll stop there. An off-shore boat is built to keep its crew safe in an ocean storm that could include numerous knockdowns and possibly a rollover. Yes, people sail to Hawaii in 15 foot dinghies, but that does not make a 15 foot dinghy an off-shore-capable boat--it only makes those people very lucky (unless they intended to die).

For 100 miles, if you can duck for cover inside of the period of time allowed by forecasts of significant weather systems, you should be OK. That's essentially the difference between coastal and off-shore cruising. The C-250 is a very good boat for its intended uses. Off-shore work is not one of them.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/30/2002 22:28:17

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2002 : 22:26:08

I towed mine home when I bought it with my wife's 2000 GMC Yukon, 5.3 V8 w/ 4x4. It was only 77 miles but had no problem. I have a 2000 GMC Sierra pickup w/ 4.7 V8, and still wanting to see how it tows since it has a tow/haul button on the controls.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2002 : 14:22:48

I recall someone using an old chevy van??

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2002 : 12:29:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

If I understand your predicament correctly, the Mexican government won't allow you to keep a U.S. titled vehicle in Mexico so you are looking for a way to tow your boat when you move/retire. Can't you tow your boat down to Mexico with your current tow vehicle, then bring it back to the U.S. and sell it. Then you could find another tow vehicle in Mexico.

Another option might be to sell your U.S. vehicle before you move, then rent a Uhaul/Ryder full size pickup to tow the boat to Mexico.

Have you considered selling your boat here in the U.S. and then buying another boat when you get to Mexico.

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

There's always the sail it there option....Might be fun too.

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - on

singaporesam
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2002 : 08:51:24

Thanks for all the info. Few new items I have found out. I can bring a pickup down to Mexico. I just have to bring it back to the border every six months to re-do the FM3 visa until I obtain permanent residence there.
Also, I used the wrong term when I originally said off-shore cruising. What I meant was coastal cruising. Hopefully this is where you basically just sail offshore, past the breakers, as you make you way down a coast. The coast would always be in sight. My "amigos" at the USCG Aux. class last night enlightened me on the terms. Sorry for any confusion.
Last question, how strong are the wings on the WK? I know they aren't built to hold up the boat but if you accidentally scrape bottom some place are they easily broken off? One USCG fellow last night told me to look into a centerboard boat (without water ballast) at 25' LOA. Did Catalina make these as it appears the newest model has water ballast and I don't believe that would be sufficiently stable for what i have in mind.
Also, I do plan on strengthening all the necessary items on board along with sufficient safety gear, etc.
Thanks again for all the assistance. Really appreciate it. Just a little info. I usually sail larger boats (J-30's, Erickson's, etc)that I rent out of San Diego. I'm just not informed well enough about trailerables. My wife is from Mexico which is one of the two reasons I'm moving there. Besides her family living in the State of Jalisco, the other, more obvious reason is, I couldn't afford to retire early in the States.
Thanks again!

Singaporesam

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2002 : 09:02:57

While I agree that C25/250s shouldn't compete in the Volvo (i.e., seriously off-shore), it's not because of a transom hung rudder. Lin and Larry Pardley would tell you that the transom hung rudder on Talesin is a major plus, not a minus. Of course, theirs is just a little beefier than ours are!

Brooke

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2002 : 10:26:05

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
While I agree that C25/250s shouldn't compete in the Volvo (i.e., seriously off-shore), it's not because of a transom hung rudder. Lin and Larry Pardley would tell you that the transom hung rudder on Talesin is a major plus, not a minus. Of course, theirs is just a little beefier than ours are!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Brooke: No doubt about that! One advantage is if it gets fouled (in our area, by a lobster pot warp riding over the step on the balanced rudder), you can solve the problem without going diving. But considering the blade construction (no internal frame), pintle attachments (2 bolts through a small area of thin fiberglass and possibly deteriorated core), and gudgeon attachments (tiny bronze backers behind the outer transom), ours are indeed not what I would call beefy!

Sam: The a non-water-ballasted centerboarder has either the ballast in the board (a "swing keel", like many C-25s) or in a stub-keel (O'Days, for example) that is almost like having the ballast in the hull, with very little "lever arm" and therefore somewhat tender. The heavy swing keel has some risks and maintenance issues that have been discussed many times here... However, I have never heard of a C-250 wing "breaking off." The C-250 wing keel is, as I understand it, a lead molding encased in fiberglass, and the wings are horizontal, set back from the leading edge of the keel, and relatively stubby--not like those on a racer. You might be able to crunch the glass, but that's probably about it. Maybe some C-250 owners can relate their experiences with underwater objects.

However, shoal draft and stability for ocean sailing on a trailerable boat that is suitable for cruising a few weeks at a time......... Hmmmmm... I don't know if anyone has figured out how to make that. Every boat is a compromise--yours will be, too. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2002 : 11:30:53

Dave:

I have the earlier, "unbalanced" rudder, which is about three inches longer than the new version. The rudder is several inches deeper draft than the raised swing keel. Several times I have gotten free after running aground with the keel up by removing the rudder and powering off.

No lobster pots here in the shallow Chesapeake, but the crab pots are legion, especially in the Spring when the crabbers are seeking peelers. I have many times cleared a pot line off the rudder. There have been a few times, on the other hand, when I have had to cut the line to get it free. I felt guilty until I was talking to a friend who's a fish and game warden about crab pots in the channel (illegal), which is where every pot I've hooked has been located. "Don't give it another thought," he answered. "Those pots aren't supposed to be in the channel, and many times we either cut the lines or throw the pots up on the beach. No excuse."

Brooke

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2002 : 14:25:22

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Dave:
I have the earlier, "unbalanced" rudder, which is about three inches longer than the new version. The rudder is several inches deeper draft than the raised swing keel. Several times I have gotten free after running aground with the keel up by removing the rudder and powering off.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Brooke: The balanced rudder is enough lighter that it will almost float off the gudgeons for you when you run aground! If it weren't for the traveler, you could install extra-long pintles that would let the rudder slide up when it touches... Have you beefed up the backing on your lower gudgeon for those groundings?

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2002 : 16:08:30

Yes I know about and am thankful for the semi-float: makes it so much easier to put on and take off in the water. No, I've not reinforced the gudgeon. . . I took the easier path: I moved from the thin water Eastern Shore to the deep Rappahannock River. I haven't run aground in over a year!

Brooke

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2002 : 22:27:26

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I moved from the thin water Eastern Shore to the deep Rappahannock River
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Brooke: We're considering moving to the Chesapeake, and have looked at areas on the Eastern Shore as well as around Annapolis... Where are you on the Rappahannock? I wasn't aware that it was a relatively deep river--must be somewhat different from the Patomac. I'll have to get my charts out when I get home.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

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