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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Advice on a boat for a friend

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/11/2006 : 07:01:56

Hi folks,

One of my crew members for the Wendesday night races is moving up in boats. She has a 14foot day sailer now and is looking at a Capri 18. We looked at the boat yesterday and it is mint. The story goes that it was a toy for some fella with too much money and after the first year or two of trailer sailing, was put in a barn and never sailed again. I couldn't find anything wrong with this boat with the mast down.

It didn't even look like there was bottom paint. There hull was gray where the bottom paint would be, but it was so smooth and shiny that I questioned if it was really bottom paint, or perhaps that was typical for new boats out of the factory.

Anyway, comes with trailer (mint), 4hp engine (don't know condition) roller furling, other boaty accoutrements. Asking $6,000.00. She got a quote for a bottom job for about $1,200.00, so essentially we're looking at $7,200.00. The model year is 90 or 91. This is in line with late 90's models, but looking at Yachtworld, those boats looked used while this looked new.

Is this a good price for a "newish" boat that is 16 years old? I'm conflicted.

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 07:59:01

Ben, My 95 C 250 has never had the bottom painted, also I don't believe Arlyn Stewarts C 250 bottom is painted either. The bottom is a medium gray and gets scrubbed and waxed every year.....

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 08:00:51

Her intend would be to keep it in a slip all summer. That's why the bottom would be painted.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 08:15:19

Has she factored in dockage, insurance registration and upkeep?

7200 is a lot to pay for 18 feet, especially 15 years plus of 18 feet. There are 97’s available in the same price range. In a barn or fully used, the boat is going to depreciate. A brand new one (Catalina changed it to a Catalina 18 ) is about 15 k (yacht world)

The Capri/Catalina 18 website has a 2001 listed for 8500.

I’d say pass….but if you don’t paint the bottom yourself. That price, while probably in line with the going rate, is about 300 clams an hour in labor. Less if you want to pay them for drying time…

You could probably paint the bottom with 100 bucks worth of barrier coat and another 60 worth of bottom paint and 10 worth of tape a roller and a tray. If you are physically able, there is no need to be gouged for that job, especially when there are so many other ways to get beaten up financially in the marine world.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 09:02:23

The thing about depreciation is, while the boat is mint right now, after your friend has painted the bottom and put a little normal wear on it (and its sails), its resale value will substantially dictated by its age. In essence, it will "depreciate" at double the normal rate. So, is this the last time your friend will move up?

If not, then factor in what she is likely to get for it a few years down the road, based on the average boat of that vintage.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 09:06:30

Ben, the Capri 18 is still in production, and if you'd buy a new one, I expect that it would cost a whole lot more than $7200.00. A 16 year old Capri 18 isn't like a 16 year old car that has gone out of style. It's the same basic boat as a new one, only a lot less money. I'd suggest she make an offer, but, even if she paid $7200. for it, it sounds like she'd be getting a nice boat at a pretty good price. If she sold it in a year or two, and keeps it nice, she might be able to recoup her cost, or at least not lose too much. The longer she keeps it, the better the deal becomes. To justify an offer, she could show the seller the info on the 2001 Capri 18 listed on the Capri/Catalina website for 8500. I'd offer about $6200., and, if that's rejected, offer to split the difference and buy it for about $6700.

As for the bottom job, I don't see why she needs to do anything extensive. It should have been barrier coated from the factory, and you say the bottom is smooth and shiny. I'd just tape the waterline stripe and roll on a fresh coat of ablative antifouling, and go sailing. It sounds like it's ready to go.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/11/2006 09:24:10

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 09:09:55

" a bottom job for about $1,200.00"

On a Capri 18? I'm in the wrong business...

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 09:14:01

To clarify the bottom job, not that I know if this makes a difference, but I'm pretty sure the bottom job included a barrier coat.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 10:21:23

The boat does not need a barrier coat, it has the gray Vinylester bottom from Catalina, do not let sand paper touch it. Wipe it off with the Interlux VC17 precleaner, spend 10 minutes taping, 30 minutes painting and you are done. That bottom will use less that $100 in paint. Nothing named Capri should ever have anything but VC17 on it and one reason is resale. The people wanting to do a bottom job are thieves and liars.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 10:57:22

I wouldn't pay that much for the boat and as Frank and others said, that bottom job is a rip off and will have the effect of decreasing the resale value.
I'd offer them $4k and walk if they disagree.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 11:37:58

I'm with Rick - regarding the offer. A Low-ball offer may at least serve to find out what the seller's real bottom line is.
If it really is the rich guy with too many toys - then he may just wants to get rid of it.
What about a test sail? 16 year old motors and sails and moving parts need attention. Mildew and old oil.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 12:04:20

The purpose for the sale, actually, is the rich guy regrettably passed away. His wife is trying to sell some of this old stuff evidently.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 12:53:57

I'm thinking it's a $4000 boat in "very good" condition... In "excellent" condition (which it might be), maybe a little more, but not more than $5000. The trickiest part if she paints it herself is the centerboard. I used to take my Daysailer off the trailer to do that, but the Capri is considerably heavier.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 13:07:51

The Capri 18, at least this one, is a fixed fin keel.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 13:10:02

I guess price is all relative.

As someone who paid $2,600.00 for a fully loaded C25 with a new outboard, $6000.00 for a 16 year old, 18' daysailor seems a bit much. A friend of mine just bought a loaded '84 Cal 24 with an outboard that was reportedly used only 8 times. Price...$1,500.

Just 2 weeks ago, I almost called on a CL-16 that was listed for $1,000.00 in the local boat trader magazine.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 15:11:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 I'm thinking it's a $4000 boat in "very good" condition... In "excellent" condition (which it might be), maybe a little more, but not more than $5000. The trickiest part if she paints it herself is the centerboard. I used to take my Daysailer off the trailer to do that, but the Capri is considerably heavier.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Find a yard with a hoist for launching 24's - lift her up, paint with vc, count to 10, put her back on the trailer

:)

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 17:39:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">paint with vc, count to 10, put her back on the trailer
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just remember to put wax paper on the trailer pads/rollers first!

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 18:40:12

JMHO, but way too much money for a 16 year old boat.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 22:43:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 As someone who paid $2,600.00 for a fully loaded C25 with a new outboard, $6000.00 for a 16 year old, 18' daysailor seems a bit much. A friend of mine just bought a loaded '84 Cal 24 with an outboard that was reportedly used only 8 times. Price...$1,500.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Part of the price issue is where you are... On a smaller lake, a very nice, smaller cuddy-cabin boat like the C-18 can be just about as attractive as a bigger, older, more questionable C-25. Was the Cal used 8 times, or just the outboard? If the former, it's virtually armed robbery--if the latter, well, the outboard (especially a 2-stroke) doesn't make the boat, but it sounds like a good deal. In the final analysis, you have to look around at what's out there (in your area), what you want, and how badly you want it, and then make a call.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/11/2006 22:45:05

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2006 : 23:15:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Part of the price issue is where you are...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's why I said, "Price is all relative".

Around here, used sailboats are a dime a dozen. At my marina, there are 5 C25's and four of them were purchased for under 3 grand.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Was the Cal used 8 times, or just the outboard? If the former, it's virtually armed robbery--if the latter, well, the outboard (especially a 2-stroke) doesn't make the boat, but it sounds like a good deal.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It was the outboard that was used only 8 times and the boat itself has been shrink wrapped for the last 5 years. Now I've only seen pictures of this Cal, but it appears to be in great shape with a few nice features like Harken furling and a wind meter.

It's being launched on Sunday and if I can make time, I'll go down to take a look at it.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2006 : 09:55:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 At my marina, there are 5 C25's and four of them were purchased for under ## grand.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

SHHH!!! I might be selling mine some day...

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