Association Forum

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Bilge

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

willy
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
422 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/30/2006 : 16:28:24

Folks,
I am putting an electric bilge pump in the aft bilge under the stern berth and was wondering if anyone out there has had any experience doing this. Not wanting to drill any holes down there, I used 3M 5200 to adhere the bracket to the lowest part of the bilge. I plan on wiring it directly to my board with maybe an in-line fuse as additional protection...but I'm not having a float switch. I just want to be able to pump her out without using the handle when needed.
My questions are...
1.) Has anyone "tapped" into the existing bilge hose and put a "Y" in to facilitate water from two sources?(electric and manual)
2.) Has anyone just removed the existing hose from the "filtering end" and used a diameter adapter to just pump directly through the whole existing system?
3.) If I do it as outlined in number 2, I realize I would have to get down there and manually reconfigure the system if I wanted to use the hand pump, and I don't mind doing that...but...will I be causing any damage to the existing system by pumping straight through with the electric pump?
Thanks in advance!
Willy

Edgy, WB#655
Dewey Beach, DE

Edited by - on

Bay Tripper
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2006 : 19:27:48

How do you get water in your bilge? I have never had water in my boat.

I keep my boat in the water all summer and do not have an electric pump, but have been debating if I should add one.

Edited by - on

Al
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2006 : 20:06:14

1.) Has anyone "tapped" into the existing bilge hose and put a "Y" in to facilitate water from two sources?(electric and manual)

Be careful adding a "Y", Willy.

The only reason any pump pumps what you want it to is because you don't give it a choice, i.e., a single hose in the bilge has to pump whatever's in the bilge. Give it a choice (like air from the discharge port of the other side of the "Y") and it'll suck the easier thing to draw - air.

In other words, don't destroy the vacuum that causes the water to be drawn into the pump.

If it were me, I'd just run a parallel hose to the electric pump. Since it's a redundant system, it doesn't have to be as low in the bilge if space is a problem.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2006 : 20:52:26

Dick, I wish I knew. I have checked everywhere and sprayed the hose and lengthened the tube my centerboard cable comes through and the only thing I can think is that I have some kind of hairline crack in the centerboard trunk. I have dried the bilge completely. first by pumping, then with shop vac, then with towels and laid on my belly and watched as water slowly seeps in and I can't even tell from where looking at it. It never rises to a point that would sink the boat...seems to stop at about 4" but I don't want it to lie in there.
Willy

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2006 : 20:55:41

Al,
Got it...the problem with running a parallel hose is I don't want to add another thru hull.
Willy

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2006 : 21:06:19

A second through hull is not so bad. I ran the second hose right next to the existing hose.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 09:39:22

Willy,
If you trailer the boat you can add water to the bilge and see where it seeps out. Might be a little more obvious.

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
856 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 11:08:33

Willy,
I'm in the process of installing a bilge pump in my water ballast.
I installed a tee under the galley sink and used the sink through-hull.
It turned out to be a shorter distance and lower rise than the manual bilge pump through-hull.
I looped the new bilge hose and wedged it between the sink and the cabinet.
This keeps the waves from pushing water back into bilge.

I have a float switch.
I was getting water in the bilge because the cockpit coaming pockets would leak.
I also think water would come in from steering wheel control arm through-hull.
Following seas would hit the transom and push through the gasket.
It was never more then 1/2 inch though.

I haven't tried the new bilge pump on open water yet.
I'll let you know how it works out.
Russ (250-WB #793)

Update: Drawing added for Dan #727

Edited by - Russ.Johnson on 06/01/2006 01:20:11

Dkn420
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 17:03:06

Russ: Can you post or email a photo of the location of the "Tee"? I assume that it is above the sink drain hose so that water from the sink doesn't take an alternate route into the bilge?

Dan #727

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 17:31:45

Willy,

Given some thought, I'm wondering if there is a ballast tank leak. If the leak were through the hull, the water wouldn't stop coming. I'm thinking there is a leak in the ballast tank somewhere near the upper elevation of the tank.

Unfortunately, the bilge can't tolerate water as the bottoms of the settee lockers are the bilge and the contents get wet unless a few inches of grating are added to the lockers.

For this reason, the leak should be found and repaired. I'd do a cursery exam first for any man made holes. It has been reported here ounce that a carpet snap hit the tank and another commented that a screw in the head area got into the tank.

Pump the tank dry and close the ballast valve. Is there still water coming in? If no, fill the tank back up and if water now enters the bilge, the tank has a leak. Water from the tank can be coming from anywhere and as far forward as the vent line for the tank. Remove everything and using a good light, fill the tank and examine every area visible in the V berth, settees, under galley cabinet, and thru the bilge access use a mirror and light to examine back of tank and areas difficult to peer into.

If no leak observed, one plan then might be to see if the leak can be isolated. This might be done with the boat on the trailer and try each end down.

Hopefully a leak won't exist under the cabin floor requiring the addition of an inspection port to make a repair. A repair should be easy once the leak is found.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2006 : 08:36:54

Russ: Thanks very much! Looks like that should work. Dan #727

Edited by - on

Keith D.
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2006 : 12:38:17

I have had 2 leaks in my water ballast boat to date. One was where the center board pulley bolts came thru the center board trunk. That one would leak with the boat in the water but no water in the ballast tank. I took on 5 gallons a day getting past the bolts. The second leak was in the seam where the ballast tank met the side of the boat. It was just a pin hole which was just weeping, but it added about a gallon a day to the bilge. I added an electric pump and plumbed it out the side of the boat just inside the closet. I ran a loop up on the inside of the closet and put an anti-siphon valve at the top then ran it back down under the door of the closet and out the side which is above the point where the bathroom sink thru hull goes out.

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2006 : 14:21:38

Keith, where exactly was your pinhole ballast tank leak? It sounds like I might have the same leak. My boat takes on a pint to a quart a day. It ends up in the back of both setees and under the kitchen sink. It never gets into the bilge. I've looked and looked and can't seem to find it. It's seems to leak more when the boat has been heeling over a lot. Since our boats are so close together (I have hull #2), I thought it might be the same problem. Thanks

Edited by - on

paulb
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2006 : 00:16:32

I ran a parallel line system with an 800 gpm with a through hull that looks very similar to Tompotter's. I thought abought a "T" with a check valve and all that, but the simplest by far, is the parallel line. I have never had to use it except for testing, but it does give me a little more peace of mind.

Edited by - on

Keith D.
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2006 : 22:11:57

Yes that is exactly where the water ended up on mine, behind the sink. I just moped it up with a sponge and then totally dried the v grove up with a large dry rag and waited to see where the very small stream of water was coming from. I had to have a bright light to even see the water reappear. Slowly I traced it up to starboard side in the back part of the V birth. Again it was where the ballast tank attached to the hull about 1 inch up from the bottom of the v on the hull side. Your leak sounds even slower than mine so you may have to plant 2 or three dry rags in the V at different spots and see which one gets wet.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2006 : 09:33:13

Toilet paper - one of the best leak finders going.
Just put pieces down where you think there is a leak, and you'll quickly find where it's at.

Paul

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2006 : 11:11:57

Thanks guys. I'll look a little more. Toilet paper is a great idea.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 10:20:00

Where were we? I found the leak,and installed the bilge pump. The pump was no problem...the leak is somehing else. Arlyn, you were right in your thoughts that it may be the water ballast, It appears to be leaking from hairline cracks around the fiberglass "box" below the bottom step where the water ballast valve is mounted. I could understand if I had over torqued the valve but the truth is its an area where I have always been careful to the level of paranoia. From the beginning I had a slight trickle which I was dumb enough to ignore. Now I have a flow that puts about a gallon an hour in there. Luckily it stops before the bilge overflows. I have been chasing this leak for days now with two part epoxy that cures underwater and managed to slow it a bit but it seems to continue around to the starboard side of the box where no human hand could ever reach. Any suggestions?

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 11:56:38

Willety, have you ever 'pumped' out the wb tank with an air pump?

paul

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 14:15:13

Wllly... I'm not sure this will be of any help but it may be worth an effort.

You might try opening the water ballast valve fully and placing a trouble light at the edge of the valve opening shining into the tank as much as possible... then observe inside for any rays of light. Doing in complete darkness might show you the way to the leak.

If the leaking area can be indentified, then it might require adding an inspection plate in the cabin sole at that location.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 19:10:45

Paul,
I have not used an airpump to date.
Arlyn, your idea is great...there are a couple of uncontrollable elements keeping me from pulling my boat right now that should resolve themselves in the next month so I will let you know...in the meantime, thank goodness for the Rule bilge pump!

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.