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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Trailering with standard factory rudder

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jking
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110 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/11/2006 : 22:48:19

My boat has the factory 3rd generation rudder, and sits too close to the road to safely trailer with it in place. I would like to know what others do with their rudder while trailering. Keeping the runner inside the boat seems cumbersome, not to mention the possible damage that could result from the rudder moving inside the cabin.
I have thought about buying the Ida kickup rudder, but there are sooooo many other things on the upgrade list.

John
250 WB #887
'Flying Wasp' , formerly 'MAD MOM'

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Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
856 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2006 : 23:05:15

We also have the 3 generation rudder.
I usually put in on a blanket in back seat of my pickup.
Since the water ballast rudder is only 5' it fits pretty well.
We only drive 25 miles to the marina and don't spend the night.
So there lots of room in the pickup.
Hope this helps.
Russ #793WB

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2006 : 02:53:18

John... I've trailered many 2,600 mile round trips with the 2nd beaching inverted on the gudgeons, you might try that. I did drill the other pintle so that both have a cotter pin. Lash it well so that it doesn't swing.

If the rudder has dark bottom paint on it, don't leave it in the sun where it can overheat. Make a blanket for it out of some reflective duct insulation or windshield dash protectors.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 06/12/2006 03:29:01

Tom Potter
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Response Posted - 06/12/2006 : 17:48:52

I just put mine in the bed of the truck. A little less weight on the stern equals more tongue weight.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/12/2006 : 20:52:36

Hmmm, we have dragged Joint Decision to the Ramp from home (60 miles) close to a dozen times now. We have done nothing with the rudder except make sure the wheel is secure (under it's bag :)

Not sure how you see it as a problem?

Paul

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jking
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Response Posted - 06/12/2006 : 22:47:13

The rudder is a problem in that it is about 12-14 inches off of the pavement with the boat on the trailer. Considering the distance aft from the axels to where the rudder is, an abrupt change in the grade of the road would (translate--HAS!) cause the rudder to scrape the pavement (no significant damage, though.)

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/13/2006 : 07:22:30

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">an abrupt change in the grade of the road <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Ahhh!
Change in grade .... the only time we experience that here is if we head on over to the dump

You make a good point!
However, removing our rudder would be quite a hassle as it's connected to the wheel steering control arm.
I'll measure the clearance later today
Paul.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/13/2006 : 09:51:24

Measured the height of bottom of the Rudder above the ground.
It's about 10" (grassy surface) from the ground.

However, when I run a line of sight from the bottom of the rudder to the bottom of the rear crossbeam of the trailer, it seems that the trailer would bottom out well before the rudder hit ground.

I just cannot see how the bottom of the rudder could ground out on a roadway unless there was a really tall lump in the way, like reversing towards a high curb.

At the ramp, pulling out. The height of the rudder above ground would decrease as the truck when over the hump at the top of the ramp (if there is one) causing the trailer tongue to rise and hence the rudder clearance to decrease. As the truck goes over the hump, the rudder clearance would actually increase as the tongue ground clearnance would apparently decrease, raising the back of the boat.

Paul.

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jking
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110 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2006 : 20:36:09

The problem occurs when going down a hill, such as a driveway, which connects to a flat surface, such as a road or parking lot. If the grade of road experienced by the wheels is significantly different than the grade just behind the wheels, the rudder is at risk of scraping the pavement. Believe me, the phenomenon is real, although the risk is less in FL than in middle TN.

I have thought about building a bracket to mount on the side of the trailer to hold the rudder, as putting it in the Suburban would be difficult, and putting it in the boat would be risky. The solution may be the Ida Sailor kick-up rudder, but I don't like the idea of spending 6 BU's on one.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/13/2006 : 22:26:16

Good point! and you are right, even the driveways are pretty shallow here.

I think that the kick-up rudder would be the way to go as I would hate to extend the boat prep time having to reconnect the steering gear to the rudder.

or (outside the box here) put bigger wheels on the trailer

Paul

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2006 : 22:46:20

I use to remove my rudder everytime I returned to my slip when I own a C25, since the ruddder was about a foot lower than the keel and the water here is very shallow. The C25 rudder weights about 6 times as much as a 250 rudder so it presented some weight problems getting it off, but once in the cockpit was no problem. FWIW I would remove the rudder wrap it in a blanket and lay it in the aft berth for traveling. You should have no problem with it going anywhere. You could even put lightweight items on top and beside it to wedge it in if you felt the need. You did not say what kind of steering you had, but if tiller, I would remove it before storing both items below.

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jking
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110 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2006 : 22:49:12

Paul:

I have taken the rig down for trailering once since commissioning back in May. It took about 2 hours (I could get the rig on my old Hunter 170 down in about 45 min.) My speed will greatly improve with time, but adding the time and challenge of reomving the rudder (esp with the wheel steering) would be too much.

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frog0911
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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2006 : 23:05:30

Removing the rudder with wheel steering should take less than 5 minutes. If you have cotter keys holding the rudder on remove them and throw them in the trash. Go to WM and get the large stainless cotter rings to replace them. Found catalog, look on page 847 on the right side middle. Now to remove the rudder you remove both rings, turn the rudder to port, pop out the wheel steering linkage and lift up and off. To install just reverse the process. It may take you 10 minutes the first time, but after that you will wonder why it looked so difficult.
As for the mast, you are correct, everytime you do it, it will take less time and once you get your routine set you will be able to probable do it all in an hour to hour an a half max including launch.

Edited by - frog0911 on 06/14/2006 08:57:02

britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/14/2006 : 19:13:38

Frog, thank you! I just went out and looked at the rudder setup and it seems you are spot on! I had anticipated a huge hassle to get the rudder off, but as you say, just replace the split pins with spring pins and it should be a breeze. I'll certainly consider removing it if I'm in doubt as the the terrain we trail on.

I wonder if I could setup a sacrificial indicated on the bottom of the rudder so that I could find out how close we get on our regular trail down to black point and john pennekamp marinas. Anticipating that we might trail accross the state to pensecola's B.E.E.R cruise next year, then the rudder would come off for that trip.

Good tip on how to remove the rudder. Thanks.

Paul

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Tom Potter
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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2006 : 19:29:41

During Beer in Pensacola this year I got to watch a great many sailboats launch and recover. I saw a half dozen drag their rudders on the ramp

I have plenty clearance at the ramp, but I still take it off when I travel on the highway and I really don't know why

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Arlyn Stewart
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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2006 : 20:54:03

I tried today to invert the 3rd generation rudder and it wont go... the stern pulpit kills it.

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frog0911
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Response Posted - 06/14/2006 : 20:56:00

I would not put anythng on the rudder to sacrifice because you might sacrifice it and the rudder. If I was that worried about it and did not want to spend the 5 minutes to remove the rudder, I would go to the Homey Depot get a 8 foot 1x4. Once home I would clamp it to the rudder so the bottoms were even then mark the 1x4 at the bottom and top if each gudgeon. Lay it flat draw the mark extensions across the board then draw a line down the center of the board to intersect with the gudgeon marks. Measure the widith if the gudgeons get a paddle bit that width and drill out the wood between the gudgeon marks. Take the rudder off put the 1x4 over the gudgeons and then use a nail of the correct size as a pin to hold the board in place. Put the rudder in the cockpit and head off down the road. If you drag or hit something you will know it, but the 1x4 will be scarded on the bottom or break very easy and not damage the boat. You would just have stop and pick up the road trash and be thankful it wasn't your rudder you sacrificed. Kind of long, but you know what they say about pictures and since I have no need to do this there are none.

Edited by - frog0911 on 06/14/2006 21:01:12

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2006 : 00:04:38

We have trailered multiple times on long trips. Louisville or Nashville to the Gulf or east coast of FL. We alwyas pull the rudder. It lies inside the cabin on top of life vests with bungies holding the tiller in place. No big deal. It rides find and there are no worries of damaging the rudder. Once at the ocean, replacing the rudder is the simplest of the re-masting, re-rigging, and other chores we face.

My .02 worth.

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