Association Forum - Sheet winch size?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Sheet winch size?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

HudsonM1
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
41 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/22/2006 : 18:12:47

I want to replace my standard jib sheet winches with S/T winches. To those of you with S/T sheet winches, what size do you have mounted?
I don't see any small ones on e-bay.

And if anyone knows of some used S/Ts for sale, feel free to let me know!

Thanks!
Hudson

Hudson
'81 SK/SR #2531

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2006 : 18:51:52

Self tailing winches on little boats like our suck, I hate my Lewmar 16st winches. Different size winches have different bolt patterns, you will need to fill the old holes with strong fiber filled epoxy and drill new ones; hassle.
Selftailing winches aren't, if you put the sheet around the winch enough times to have adequate friction and then run the sheet across the stripper and then around the back of the jaws one would think that you then simply grind the winch with a handle and everything will be fine. (Oh yes you must use a handle, you can no longer simply pull on the sheet and expect the drum to spin freely, it won't) Now you are grinding and thinking the winch is taking care of business, it isn't, the dirty little secret is the selftailers must be tailed. If they are not then the sheet will come out of the last bit of the jaws just enough that the sheet will begin to slip; you have to tail selftailers or the line works its way out and slips! Oh and of course you may no longer play the sheet, in order to let the sheet out you must go to the winch and take the sheet out of the jaws and off the stripper, then you can let the sheet out, you see by picking up the tail to let it out you have now snugged the line back into the jaw so it will not slip. I added clam cleats to my stock STs and when sailing almost never engage the ST hardware.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1009 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2006 : 19:10:02

Perhaps frank will sell you his?????

Tom.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2006 : 21:08:31

Refer to changing bolt hole patterns.... nope. I will just use them as regular winches and leave the coaming alone.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2006 : 21:23:33

What about those clam cleats...I'm still using my deck cleats. I was asking questions about clam cleats at the marina Chandlery the other day and the guy there said it was his opinion that I stay with the cleats and forget the clams.
I'd like to single hand and think that the clams would be a good idea and I could still use the cleats if I was on an hours long tack. I am also under the understanding that clams would be better for racing, especially on my little pond of a lake.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2006 : 22:29:07

I singlehand almost exclusively and I still use the horn cleats, but I don't use them in the conventional way. Instead of crossovers and hitches, I secure the sheets with just two or three round turns on the cleat then give it a slight tug. This holds even when the wind is howling and more prudent sailors are in port. Before a tack, I just spin the line from the cleat then hold it as I go into the tack.

Edited by - on

HudsonM1
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2006 : 22:38:45

Frank,
I've never heard of anyone carrying so much animosity towards a winch! Good points to think about though.

Hudson

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2006 : 23:50:42

Oh just stick around Hudson, I have other buttons too! Ask me about Cetol which has brainwashed all these normally rational people into thinking it is better than oil. In Fact... oh never mind.
STs are just such a disappointment and it is so unfair because they are the kind of thing we all lust for because we want cool toys for these boats that we love so much.

PS Love clams for single handing, easy to load, easy to release.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 06:12:13

I never had self-tailing winches before until I bought the Catalina. Previously, boats that I owned I had cam cleats but seem to recall not the ones that Frank shows but the ones that have the jaws and springs. They worked fine. In any case, the self tailing winches do release a bit and have to be tightened up every so often. They seemed okay to me and never gave it much thought until Frank brought this up. Thanks a lot Frank !

As faras cetol versus teak oil, etc......each has their supporters. I am sure many have used both products at one time or another. I think part of the issue has to do with how much time and convenience one has to do the maintenance. If you have the boat at home for any length of time, then perhaps one would lean toward using oil. But years ago when I had my boat on a mooring in Long Island Sound and I used to use oil, it seemed a constant battle between bleaching the greyed teak and then applying teak oil just to see it turn grey again during the same season. Those that use products like Cetol seem to avoid the grey tones, though, the Cetol requires maintenance as well. Perhaps the oils they now have on the market can make it thru a season but since this is my first year after being in hibernation for over 20, I am still on the maintenance learning curve.

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 12:27:42

I also recommend skipping the self-tailing and going with standard winches. Save your money and put a jam cleat right being the winch - like Frank.

Anybody tried putting 24s in our combing? I have 16s, and while that is fine for me, sometimes my spouse has a little trouble.

-Matt Q.

ps - Jumping on Franks' rant, you really want to use a jam cleat not a cam cleat. Cam cleates are great, but not for this application - picture below.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 13:06:59

Hudson, I have the stock Lewmar 16ST primaries that came with my boat. I don't have the tailing issues described above -- when I grind the handle, the line does just fine and stays enough in the gripper ring to keep from slipping. You may want to adjust the position of the stripper so that the line comes off the winch in the way you want. As for needing a handle, that's not my experience in lighter winds -- I grab the tail and pull. Of course, when it's blowing hard or I'm really sheeting the jib down tight, I do need a handle.

I don't race, and I understand that racers prefer non-ST winches so they can make trimming adjustments quickly. I like the STs. But then, I also like my swing keel, so go figure.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 06/23/2006 15:02:40

HudsonM1
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 21:36:59

Brooke,
Off topic here...I see you sail out of Urbanna. I'm across the river at Yankee Point. I've only been in the area for a year so I'm sure I could benefit from some of your local intel. Drop me an e-mail sometime. hudson317@comcast.net

Hudson

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2006 : 00:46:53

I've used Wincher Self-Tailers for more than 20 years on the stock Lewmars that came with the boat and have enjoyed their use for single handing and racing. They seem to be the easiest to release and trim sails. The mountain lakes of our area demand that you can be able to release quickly with a sudden wind shift. Have always been envious of those that can afford the self-tailing until now. Great topic.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2006 : 11:32:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">you really want to use a jam cleat not a cam cleat. Cam cleates are great, but not for this application - picture below.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Matt - Why?

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2006 : 06:43:50

I'm not having any trouble with my stock self tailers on my 89.

What am I doing wrong? Is it because I don't race?

I like to rach over and give it a little crank to pull in the sheet with one hand on the tiller, one hand on the winch, one hand on a babe.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 00:25:09

What you're doing wrong, Frank, is raching over the wench.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 06/26/2006 00:28:53

Brian King
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 08:32:59

Brooke, what size and brand are your jib sheets? I've had the same problem with my '89 that has Lewmar 16ST's but I'm attributing the problem to sheets that are slightly worn. Thanks Brooke

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 12:44:27

Brian: I've always used 7/16". For a long time I used Sta-set, which worked fine, but this year I switched to single braid (Regatta, I think), which is softer and has a lovely feel.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 15:35:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">you really want to use a jam cleat not a cam cleat. Cam cleates are great, but not for this application - picture below.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Matt - Why?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Please note that this is just my opinion. Your experiece may differ, and our differences make us all stronger.

Jam cleats (as are on Frank's boat - and mine) allow you to just drop the sheet. I frequently just hold the thing over the jam cleat and let go - it will catch.

Cam cleats have two small cams. They require you to pull the sheet through the cams to open them. While a great idea for a spinnaker topping lift, spinnaker downhaul, cunningham, backstay, an others not really a good idea in my opinion for genny sheets.

Matt Q.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 20:27:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brian King
 Brooke, what size and brand are your jib sheets? I've had the same problem with my '89 that has Lewmar 16ST's but I'm attributing the problem to sheets that are slightly worn. Thanks Brooke
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In truth I think some of my pain could be solved after a search for the perfect Lewmar 16 ST sheet. At some time I may take that quest.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 22:03:50

With all due respect I have to totally disagree with Frank & Matt Q about jam (I call them clam) cleats. We had them on the old C22 and after innumerable occasions when they caught the lazy sheet when tacking I threw the @#$%^& things overboard and installed cams - easy to load, easy to release (just pull up on the sheet!)

Derek

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 22:58:30

My understanding is that there are JAMB... CLAM... and CAM cleats.

Jamb - Looks like a regular 'open' horn cleat except one side of the cleat has a 'V' shape that will wedge the line in. Wrap the line under the horn and pull into the wedge to secure.

Clam Cleat - "V" opening that wedges the line. Looks like a slightly open clam shell. Put the line in the opening and pull downward to cleat, lift to uncleat.

Cam Cleat - Opening between two cam-shaped spring loaded jaws that holds the line. Snap the line down as you pull into the cleat to set. Snap it out to release. Can be hard to release under high load.

I have 'clam' cleats mounted on wedge blocks with my C25 primaries. They seem to work fine and I haven't had significant issues with them snagging the sheets after release. They do need a couple wraps on the winch to hold in heavy air (which you should be doing anyway).

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 09:13:52

I have clams and they are really handy for quick tacks and singlehanding. However, I have had the sheet get stuck in them on a really windy and wet ride when the wet sheet really gets pulled into it. So, I keep a homemade belaying pin handy to lift it out if necessary.
It help to get the angle to the winch just right and to set them on an angled block of teak.
The horn cleats are still there if needed.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.