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Genoa Track Location

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Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/23/2006 : 13:43:55

In another thread, I saw Frank had a different genoa track location than I do. (Picture below.) My genoa track is on the toe rail. It works well, but the genoa is a little more open than it needs to be. In some ways it works well with the fat foils on the boat, but I think it's one of the main reason's my boat won't pinch. (Ok, it will pinch, but I can't keep up with a Cal 25, an Express, a Crescent, or a ... you get the idea.)

I have been considering moving the track inboar for some time, but there are a couple of things holding me back.

First, I think it will toss me out of any One Design racing. I'll re-read the class rules, but I would be very surprised if this was allowed. I might also have to have if reviewed by my local PHRF.

Second, the walkway is thin enough. Another track and genoa car makes it busier.

Lastly, do I really want to put anymore holes in the boat? No, but if it makes me go faster, pass me the drill!

Along the same lines, does anyone have genoa track for a #3 (~110%) on the cabin top around the mast base?

-Matt Q

former Captain of Heartbeat
Catalina 25 Tall
#4816

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 16:52:17

Don't know what the answer is here but I have some spare track sections if you need some. It is the standard 1" track that is on our boats.

The rocket scientist that owned the boat before me removed the track and then bent it in half. Well, what do you think happened when I straitened it out? Now I have four small pieces.
Email me if you want some.
Dan
Oh, and I live on the other side of the state so shipping won't be much. If you’re not in a hurry, I travel a lot and could probably just throw a piece off the truck in your front yard.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 17:03:40

Another difference of the 89, note my track is sunk into the deck so it is flush and (look close) the stanchions have been moved out to the toe rail, they left flat spots for them. My 89 has much nicer side decks to walk on.

Once I saw an 89 I really wanted one.
As for your desire to close the slot, don't with a 150, it will simply backwind the main, with a 110 you can rig a Barber Hauler and tweek the clew toward the mast. You would mount a turning block on the coachroof and a cleat at the back of the cabin.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 06/23/2006 17:04:55

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2006 : 09:11:20

Frank,

What's the deal on that fiberglass boomkicker?

It looks like something I'd like to have.

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2006 : 10:14:19

Frank,

I'm a cruiser not a racer but might get into some club racing later. Will a Barber Hauler setup DQ me from class racing?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2006 : 14:05:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by StSimon
 Frank,

I'm a cruiser not a racer but might get into some club racing later. Will a Barber Hauler setup DQ me from class racing?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I suppose that is a question for a dockside lawyer with our rules in hand, but my gut is that it would not since you would only be simulating my boat's stock sheeting angle.

The fiberglass boomkicker is the real brand name BoomKicker. It is sized for our boats or you can order a generic. The Catalina specific ones have the right hardware for sure. Note it does not incorporate the vang. It works well but will not support your body weight leaning on the boom.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2006 : 10:54:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by StSimon
 Frank,

I'm a cruiser not a racer but might get into some club racing later. Will a Barber Hauler setup DQ me from class racing?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I suppose that is a question for a dockside lawyer with our rules in hand, but my gut is that it would not since you would only be simulating my boat's stock sheeting angle.

Thanks Frank, I'd like to get one of those Boomkickers, where did you pick yours up and how much does it go gor?

The fiberglass boomkicker is the real brand name BoomKicker. It is sized for our boats or you can order a generic. The Catalina specific ones have the right hardware for sure. Note it does not incorporate the vang. It works well but will not support your body weight leaning on the boom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

duanewolff
Master Marine Consultant

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50022 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 11:14:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by StSimon
 Frank,

I'm a cruiser not a racer but might get into some club racing later. Will a Barber Hauler setup DQ me from class racing?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Club Racing - NO
Class Racing - probably not...our rules do not indicate that you cannot have it. Many of the tall rigs, and I think the newer models have an inboard jib track from the factory, so I don't think you can disqualify a guy for trying to even out the advantage they have.

This years National Champion had an inboard track on his tall rig...

dw

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 16:08:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by duanewolff
This years National Champion had an inboard track on his tall rig...

dw
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ahhh, most interesting.

Did that boat tend to make lanes on the others? I would think so.

-Matt Q.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 18:06:01

lanes? I've never heard that expression. We were faster in heavier air. In the light stuff he walked all over us.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 22:32:24

I see (in the second photo) that the late model lifelines run to the top of the pulpit rail rather than to the base... do you find that it messes up your jib shape a bit ???

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 02:20:17

Not with a Furler

Edited by - on

Champipple
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Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 06:45:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 I see (in the second photo) that the late model lifelines run to the top of the pulpit rail rather than to the base... do you find that it messes up your jib shape a bit ???
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not if the track is inboard as is the case on the newer boats.

dw

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 07:18:15

We are not a one design racing class. An enterprising individual with a little extra cash could add an additional length of track on the weather decks with snatch blocks for attaching sheets "in a pinch" (pun intended

). With track inside and out you would have a decided advantage and, as I understand the class rules, would be perfectly legal. If you really want to add power, get a full roach main the next time your in the market for a new main sail, and a mylar genoa. Both are legal under the class rules. In fact, just about any mod you make to the boat is legal so long as the luff and foot of the main are the correct size and the boat is set up with all the original equipment it came with - head, sinks, motor, etc. The top boats in the nationals all had non-dacron sails and one, Long Wind, belonging to Bill Meinert, sailed without the keel cable to reduce drag. So, if you reeeeeaaaly want to be speedy on the race course, be creative with your setup and take a long look at your sail inventory.

Edited by - on

Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 07:36:33

Just a few observations –

Newer Sails are by far important in both light and heavy air. I don’t think that Mylar vs Dacron would have made any significant impact had we sailed in 15-20 knots all week. However at 8 kts or less the Mylar sail maid a significant impact. A sail that has been blown out over time is a decided disadvantage. On Thursday and the end of the race Friday, guys who could not eliminate depth in their sails and move the draft forward did not fare as well.

IMHO roller furling based on Mike Humphries setup – which was more of a tuff-luff on a furler didn’t warrant the 3 or 6 second allowance.

Smooth bottoms and VC-17 or similar paint outperformed those without some less expensive ablative paint with a lumpy bottom. While Bill Meinert removed the cable – which has been class legal for a number of years, we did not. For us, it is a matter of backing the boat for a few hundred yards and diving in to check for seaweed if the boat performance is slow prior to starting.

Very light rig tension with a lot of luff sag was a big key in the light conditions. A class legal whisker pole was also needed for running downwind.

The Officers approved removing the motor from the transom for this regatta– We should have done it and didn’t – If your local phrf allows for it, put it on the cabin floor in really light conditions.

Tune your rig for the conditions for each race if possible. Note your settings and conditions and adapt.

Read and Re-read your sailing instructions.

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 20:31:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 I see (in the second photo) that the late model lifelines run to the top of the pulpit rail rather than to the base... do you find that it messes up your jib shape a bit ???
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

SKIRT!!!

(Sorry to shout, it is just the racer in me.)

-Matt Q.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 20:38:31

We used to yell "SKIRT" but somehow through some process of evolution we now yell "PANTIES". It seems to distract competitors in ear shot.

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 20:55:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 Tune your rig for the conditions for each race if possible. Note your settings and conditions and adapt.

Read and Re-read your sailing instructions.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Duane,

Is there a database or even just some rough guidelines about stay tension? I have guessed about mine, but there is nothing like reviewing other one design racers to help with your settings.

As far as sailing instructions go, I can't agree more. Just last Thursaday we missed the 'short course' signal and went around the long course with the rest of the fleet! If we would have went around the short course, we would have done very well. (In our defense, the Thursday night race just has a 1' reader board on the club with an 'S' on it - tough to read when you are starting in a ~11 boat class. So it goes.)

-Matt Q.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 22:07:06

I'm actually working on loos tensions. The problem is they are specific in a lot of ways to the sail plan. In our case, as this thread has indicated, its not all the same. What I can say is that you need to go looser in lighter conditions and influence or bring on luff sag

As for your shortened course issue, I'd love to read your SI's - your statement above doesn't completely jive with the rulebook....Shortned courses are generally shortned at the end of the last leg and don't need announcement. Simply a boat flying an S flag and the new last mark. What you mentioned sounds like a combination Change course followed by a Shortnened course

Edited by - Champipple on 06/28/2006 06:46:43

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 15:18:57

<Highjacks Thread>

Duane,

Well, the Thursday Night Series is a set course using a combination of bouys and set marks. There is a different (first) turning mark for the short rather than the long.

The SI's are here if you would like to look at them. http://byc.com/pdf/thursdaynightapplication2006.pdf

Line 5 says that the shortened course is a 'placard placed on the balcony.' It is true, they placed a board with about a one foot high "S" on it. I don't think anyone in my class saw it. We all went around the long course. Starts are busy times, and sometimes we miss things. It was still a fun time.

-Matt Q.

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 15:28:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 lanes? I've never heard that expression. We were faster in heavier air. In the light stuff he walked all over us.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

'Making lanes' is a term that I have heard used up here in Detroit. It refers to a boat's ability to beat at the same speed, but make a little better headway than it's competitors. If you were a the back of the pack and were watching a group of boats all on one board, it might look like a group of cars travelling on a huge umpteen lane highway. The boat that is 'making lanes' would look like it is slowing changing lanes to windward.

Funny term.

Matt Q.

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