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Response Posted - 06/07/2002 : 16:37:28

Hey folks, I have a C250 WB...Believe it or not I find less fault in it than in the C25. I had a C22 and had to rebuild the swing keel system. drop the keel, etc. Man you had better have 200 friends or lots and lots of beer. Anyway just for accuracies sake ( kind of a non-nautical term) Catalina did not come out with the C250 until late 1994, and it was listed on the title as 1995 year model. So contrary to earlier information the C25 swing/wing/fin was produced through 1993-4. And then all subsequent years after 1995 the C250 both wing and water ballast was the only 25 foot boat built by catalina. Thank you for yoyr support !

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jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
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Response Posted - 06/07/2002 : 17:25:58

Ed, 4ft floats mine. I keep it in a canal behind the house and sometimes at low tide I cant get out of the canal. Not really a problem for anyone who can read a tide chart. If I plan to leave when the tide is low I just anchor her out before hand.

Brooke, I beg to differ on the "boat is not really a necessity" I have 5 yes, I said 5 teenage kids. If I didnt have my boat I would be crazier than I am now. The Jellyfish is a necessity to me! We have friends with swingers and I dont hold it against them. I wont hold it against you either. As for Hinkley, they are a fine expensive boat.
But here again, if I had that kind of money(which I dont) I would buy a shoal draft Pacific Seacraft. Here again different stroke for different folks. If we all agreed on everything it sure would be a boring place. If you're ever in my neck of the woods, look me up, Ill buy you a beer and we can discuss it for real!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2002 : 22:09:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If a swing keel/centerboard is so horrible, I wonder why Hinkley continues to built them into their yachts?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Because a keel/centerboard is very different from a swing keel. The Hinkley, Bristol, O'Day, and others, have the ballast in the keel trunk (a shallow appendage to the hull) and a centerboard that is just a swinging board that has barely enough weight in it to stay down. There is virtually no chance that a broken cable on a Hinkley is going to sink the boat.

Sorry--I don't wish to bash fellow sailors' boats, but the C-25 is not a keel/centerboard.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

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bren737
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Response Posted - 06/08/2002 : 19:06:38

Bill,

Following this thread (as others like it in the past) has been interesting. I find the water ballast and swing-keel owners feel they have to, for some reason, justify their purchase of their boat and protect their sailor's manhood/womanhood. Much the same debate goes with the tiller vs wheel steering. Reminds me a lot of a conversation I had at a gas station a few months ago with a gentleman filling his tiny eco-friendly car and I was filling my 4x4 Suburban. He seemed to take great pleasure in ridiculing the gas mileage I got compared to his and the fact that it was taking the better part of $75 to fill my tank. I asked him how many trips it would take for him get the wife, two kids, their bikes, camping gear for the weekend and the boat to the lake in his car.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> Please don't misunderstand, I don't mean that the 'debate' on the forum is rude or demeaning as was the guy at the gas station.

While I'm new to the 250 and the forum here, I've sailed Hobies to 46 footers through the past several years. I'll add my two cents worth (and start defending my purchase)<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>. I recently moved up to a 250 WB. I looked at some 25s and did a lot of internet searching for a 250. I liked the openess and ease of maintenace of the 250. I've got two young kids and want to sail, not work on a boat that much. I wanted wheel steering and some other features that I couldn't find on a 25.

I chose the WB vs the WK for simple ease of launching. I keep the boat dry-slipped on her trailer and intend to trailer her to the Gulf Coast several times a year. Since my launching/retrieving is just about single-handed, the WK was just out of the question. Too, the constantly changing lake levels around here made the WK unlaunchable from most ramps. Interestingly, of the few 250s I could find for sale on the web, only one was a WB, the rest were WKs. Not sure, but I think it's because people got tired of the launch. I decided I didn't want to wait for the right boat to come my way, so I ordered a new one. A little over a month later (about six weeks ago) I had her on the lake.

So far I've had my boat out seven times, once in 20+ knot winds. I, too, had been concerned about the WBs tenderness before I ordered. After the day at 20+ (full main, full jib) I can say I have NO reservations about my decision. I guess my recent years sailing a 16ft day-sailor taught me what real tenderness is! Leaning over to grab your beer could being quite a thrilling experience!

I can certainly relate to your position. My wife was about ready to revoke her stamp of approval on the new boat because I was taking too long to make up my mind. Even though she's more of a 'sailboat rider' as opposed to a real sailor, she really likes the new boat and is becoming more interested in taking an active part in it. She's even learning how to back the trailer down the (long, steep) ramp while I 'hover' waiting to retrieve the boat! Never thought I'd see that!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Good luck with your decision! There are lots of good people here on the forum to answer questions and give their inputs. They were a big help to me and thanks to all that helped!

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - bren737 on 06/08/2002 19:09:35

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Douglas
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Response Posted - 06/08/2002 : 22:29:28

1983 tall rig fin keel. With that said I think the swingers are fine. If you take care of whats needed on a swinger they are wonderfull. It takes me 3 days to sail my fin keel up to the San Juan Islands. A swing keel can be there in a few hours. I envy that advantage. My advantage is I keep my boat in the water all year. If I want to sail I dont have to launch. I can escape the daily grind any time I want to and sail off for a few hours. If your going to stay in the water 24, 7 a fin keel has the advantage but God I envy the swingers ability to travel. No way could I trailer without a big truck and a heavy trailer and sooo much work to launch. It all comes down to how when and where you want to use your boat. None are better they are designed so we the sailers can do what we want with the boat and Catalina did a fine job of making it all possable. Thanks Catalina.

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

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Brooke Willson
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Response Posted - 06/08/2002 : 22:52:52

I think the whole swing keel thing has gotten all the press it deserves, and I promise to never address the issue again. That's not being defensive -- that's being exhausted.

And as for cars. . if you're hauling the kids, spouse, dog, bikes, and boat every day to the lake, that's one thing. On the other hand, it doesn't take too many $ 75.00 tanks of gas to justify renting a van for vacations. I never cease to be amazed at all the three ton SUVs I see every day commuting to work with one person inside.

Great. Now I've started another hate thread. Sorry.

Brooke

Edited by - brooke willson on 06/09/2002 00:21:54

Edited by - brooke willson on 06/09/2002 00:23:34

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arlingva
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Response Posted - 06/08/2002 : 23:34:30

Thanks for all the replies. Especially Bren's recent one. I'm now full time boat shopping. With a preference for a wk. Because I plan to keep the boat in the water all the time where it is relatively shallow. However, I will never rule a terrific deal out. So if anybody sees something please let me know.

Thanks again, Bill
Looking for boat near Northern Virginia

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
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Response Posted - 06/09/2002 : 07:16:41

I don't understand what the difference between launching a WB vs. WK would be. Other than you would still have to lower the keel once in the water with the WB. You still have to step and tune the mast and install the rudder, hang the motor or what ever, load supplies, etc.
So to me, it is just a question of how much weight your tow vehicle can handle.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

Edited by - ben - fl on 06/09/2002 07:18:08

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MattL
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Response Posted - 06/09/2002 : 09:26:17

OK, let me preface this with the fact that I also had a swing for 25 years. Not a Cat, a Santana. I changed the cable once. Its design was such that even though it was a smaller lighter keel it probably had a lot more force pulling on it than a cat 25. The only trouble I had with it was that the rudder was so long that if the keel was up at all, ie. down wind, it would hit first. I never lost the rudder this way, just wondering if this is a concern among the swingers.
p.s. I love my fin, mostly because my wife will now go sailing with the bigger boat <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Matt Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

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Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 06/09/2002 : 12:07:48

Ben, there is a significant difference. The w/b while designed to avoid hauling extra weight...is much easier to launch and retrieve. I have never needed to use a tongue extender or rope to launch retrieve...though I have had to blow the ballast once to load which is no problem using a high volume air pump...

The w/b sets lower on the trailer.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 10:36:36

Teasel, SRFK. That said, I keep her in the water all season and (hopefully) depth will never be a problem. All boats are compromises, and if I trailered I'd probably go with the WB 250. The ability to be able to drive up to Maine, launch and sail, rather than spend the whole time just to get there (maybe in a few years when I'm not constrained by a limited supply of vacation days)is a great point if you want some variety. Fortunately, here at the east end of LI sound, I have yet to become bored with local cruising - too many great destinations within a relatively short, weekend cruise radius. The point is, fin, wing, swing or centerboard is a function of how we use our boats, and any of them will deliver satisfaction if properly maintained and sailed within the limits of the user's seamanship.

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dlucier
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Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 19:02:01

Question:

I had a swinger and now I have a C25 SR/FK, but I was wondering how does the water enter the ballast tanks on the WB model. Are there a couple of inlet holes that are always open or do you manually open valves to let water in/out? Do you have access to these tanks for cleaning purposes? The reason I ask this is, here in the Great Lakes we have a Zebra mussel problem and the first season I had my swinger, there was no antifouling paint up in the keel trunk slot as well as on the portion of the keel that was up in the trunk. At the end of the season when I hauled her out, I had Zebra mussels everywhere up inside the trunk and my keel was covered with those barnacles. In a WB model, could the ballast tanks fill up with these voracious breeders?

Don Lucier, North Star
C25 SR/FK

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Spain
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 07:53:45

Bill,
Have you considered sailing the Chesapeake Bay? I also live in Fairfax County (Burke) and I keep my boat, a C25 with fin keel in Mayo, Md. It takes about an hour to get to it from Burke. It is straight out to the end of Central Avenue. The Bay provides many more sailing options than does the Potomac, endless gunk holes, resturants on the bay, great destinations such as Baltimore, St. Michaels, Annapolis, Wye River, Rockhall and Fairlee Creek to name a few. The wife and I have just returned from a two week trip down the bay to Hampton Roads. It is about 130 nautical miles to Hampton Roads from Annapolis as opposed to 154 NM between Washington, DC and Annapolis.

The Bay allows you to pick the best boat that you can afford and not one based on the depth of water.

Lee Spain

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Ray Seitz
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Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 10:35:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I was wondering how does the water enter the ballast tanks on the WB model. Are there a couple of inlet holes that are always open or do you manually open valves to let water in/out? Do you have access to these tanks for cleaning purposes? The reason I ask this is, here in the Great Lakes we have a Zebra mussel problem and the first season I had my swinger, there was no antifouling paint up in the keel trunk slot as well as on the portion of the keel that was up in the trunk. At the end of the season when I hauled her out, I had Zebra mussels everywhere up inside the trunk and my keel was covered with those barnacles. In a WB model, could the ballast tanks fill up with these voracious breeders?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Don:
There is only one large valve operated intake, located under the last companionway stair. I don't know if Brookville lake, IN has the zebras but Catalina reccommends that the bottom be painted so ours is painted even up into the area that the keel fits in. Catalina also reccommends the addition of a little bleach to the waterballast tanks for long periods. There is no access to the WBtanks other than through the 1" vent located in the foreward anchor locker.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628

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dunphy
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 06/14/2002 : 23:36:31

HI....just a couple of clarifications....the last C-25's were built in 1990...there must have been a few years lapse before the C 250 was released.

Three years ago I added my C-25 TR/WK (6022), and I feel it would be a good choice. It trailers and launches well, and with my roller furler and Main Reafer, I seem able to sail in most winds without trouble. Other than the teak, she is pretty maintainence free. I looked hard at the 250, yet I like the more classic look of the C-25, and I like having some deck along the lifelines when I go forward. What do C 250 sailors think about always climbing over the top of the cabin to get forward? As options, especially with kids, I would think a roller furler would be handy.

Peter

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cathluk
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Response Posted - 06/18/2002 : 08:40:39

I saw a C250 for sale in Annapolis in the June Spinsheet. The info in Spinsheet was:

Howell Yachts
326 First St. Suite 31
Annapolis, MD 21403
410-269-0353 fax 410-263-9550
email: howelyacht@aol.com

25' Catalina 250 '97 Shoal Draft, wing keel sloop w/ full batten main electric start Nissan o/b pop top and a very spacious interior plan $22,900.

Cathy
"Blown Away"
'97 C250WK #253

Edited by - on

coldducks
Captain

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Response Posted - 06/18/2002 : 09:03:44

we have a 99 C250 wk. we dont have to walk over the cabin to get forward. there is enough room along the sides.

COLDDUCKS
FANTASY #409 C250WK

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/18/2002 : 10:12:21

There are no side decks on the center board 250... so going over the cabin top is the only option.

The design does incorporate a well placed handrail stanchion at the mounting point to the cabin top...making climbing up easy and safe.

The lack of side decks is a design requirement that adds freeboard and righting stability allowing the ballast to be internal.

Of help going forward... is to loose foot the main... this allows the boom to be used as a handrail. Doing so also provides better shaping and management of the sail.

Stepping from the cabin top to foredeck and returning is in my opinion the greatest area of concern. Fortunately, going onto fordeck with the boat in any seaway is reduced with the roller furler. Setting a drifter does not require the use of the foredeck though use of the whisker pole of course does.

I employ a jib sheet anti fouling line which forms an A to prevent jib sheets from fouling in the mast cleats and this slightly increases the difficulty of going to foredeck...

A few times, I have added the double reef from a butt glued to the cabin top position with a leg around the vang.

A rule on my boat... is that to go onto the cabin top... requires wearing the life jacket. When cruising... jack lines are set and a teather is used when reefing.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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arlingva
Navigator

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USA
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Response Posted - 06/19/2002 : 21:28:30

Cathluk Saw the 250 in annapolis. I'm going to show my wife it and a new one and let her make the call.

Thanks, Bill

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andy
Navigator

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228 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 15:25:49

Arlingvn.... First off I'd say settling on a Catilina is a wise choice. I don't believe the other manufactures of "pocket" cruisers have the quality of the Catilina. The c250 and c25 are both great boats. I own the only c250 in our club, (there are about 10 c25's). If I were shopping for a boat right now, I'd buy the cleanest and best outfitted of either one that I found. I definitely wouldn't buy a new boat. If you're patient, you will find a boat with thousands of $ of extras that will suit you. We have several c25's in our club that are full race equiped with all the good stuff (harken, north etc.) I could probably buy any of them cheaper than what I paid for the c250 although mine's loaded with goodies too. The main thing is to figure out what your requirements are. Slip, or trailer. You will probably be able to find a nicely equiped c25 cheaper than a c250 just because there are so many c25's out there. If you are going to trailer, the c250WB is the choice. I pull mine with a light weight 1/2 ton pickup and it launches and recovers like an 18'runabout. The swing keel isn't a problem because it only weighs 90# instead of 800# or so. If the cable breaks it won't cause structural problems. If you have a slip, I'd look for a pristine, harkenized, c25WK with a big bag of fairly new sails!

Andy Anderson
CSCO Kid #163 C250WB
MHYC, McCall Idaho-

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arlingva
Navigator

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Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 20:45:42

Thanks Andy,

I've zeroed in on one 98 250 and one brand new 250. Neither is really tricked out, but I'm trading age for goodies.

Thanks, Bill

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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Response Posted - 07/03/2002 : 09:23:46

Bill I am glad to see that you are looking at a new 250. I looked for a couple of years at various boats and finally settled with a Catalina. Despite what most say will be a big monetary loss (which IMHO is not true)even if you do have a big depreciation will it ever match what we all loose on cars I doubt it. I got my new Catalina 250 for what most 98 Catalinas are asking, you just have to hammer on the dealers and find one that is willing to cut deeply into his profit margin. I looked at a lot of 95 and 96 models and they were selling for just a few thousand below their original list price (Sail Mag. had an article reviewing the 250 in 95 which can be found posted on Marks Texas Sailor website, I think). One thing that an earlier post mentioned was the goodies/add ons or even Coast Guard required equipment which will all have to be purchased by you as a new boat owner. This can add up easily to a couple of thousand dollars depending on what you want. I think there are a few other good older and newer (one example of each Cape Dory & Seward) boats out there and this topic has been discussed, and you have to decide what fits your requirements and budget. This is just my two pennies worth hope it helps.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 07/03/2002 09:24:55

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andy
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Response Posted - 07/03/2002 : 13:33:13

arlingva... I may have given the impression in my post that if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have bought my c250. NOT True. I bought it three years ago and couldn't be happier with it. It's a '95 WB #163. We paid $20,000. The boat was absolutely like new. Spent its whole life (summer only) in a 7000' mt lake that you can drink out of.
It has lewmar #15 winches, sails were like new, VHF, autohelm ST30 speed/depth, ST30 wind/speed/dir, 12 disc CD, Magma BBQ, Force 10 cabin heater, new 8hp 4cyl Evinrude,dock plug battery charger, factory galv. dual wheel trailer, + every factory option, and everything worked as new. The boat is a delight to sail, points high and has handled 30Kt+ gusts. We frequently race it in steady 18-20kt. wind. You mentioned that you like to race... I can tell you that with a linitation of the 110 jib, c25 guys flying 150 gennys in 10-12kt of wind will blow right by you. The boat is handicapped about the same as a c25, so you have to sail the hell out of it to beat 'em.

Andy Anderson
CSCO Kid #163
MHYC McCall Idaho. 45deg. N Lat elv.5200"0

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arlingva
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Response Posted - 07/03/2002 : 22:26:29

Thanks again for the input. Hope to decide by next Wednesday.
I'll let you know.

Bill

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arlingva
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Response Posted - 07/08/2002 : 21:32:28

I did it! Bought a 2002 250WK.

Now all I have to do is find a place to keep it.

Bill

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