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HELP - Water Leak

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Rollins
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/09/2002 : 22:10:30

I'm new to the C25 forum, and recently bought my first sailboat, a 1989 C25 SR. In an effort to tidy up the wiring that the previous owner had run I noticed there were screws in the fiberglass in the cabin where the wire had once been run using cable ties in the screws. The run was from the back side of the speed/depth meter which is in the cockpit, down to the stairs, then across under the first step to the opening next to the sink. No problems until I removed the last screw. It is in the fiberglass under the top stair step, which is about a foot below the companionway opening; and where the fiberglass turns to go aft (the cockpit floor).

Now for the problem, when I removed the screw, water started gushing out. I collected about a pint of brown-tinted water. Is this a big deal? How do I solve this? I'm assuming that water is getting between the two fiberglass panels from somewhere. Will this cause delamination in the cockpit floor?

I'm in a panic! My first boat, and already a problem I can't figure out. Any assistance would be greatly appreicated.

Mike R.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 08:35:11

Mike,

It can be. In that location I can think of two or three things that would cause water to get there. The brown color of the water is what would worry me, it means the water was either really dirty before it got into the boat, or, more likely, it spent a lot of time hanging out with your plywood core. The result is the discoloration. This, unfortunatley is most likely the case.

Is your cockpit sole soft in that area, are there any chips in the gel coat?? Especially right were the floor meets the coaming right under the stairs? This is a spot of possible stress cracking. The second spot, (this is what happened on ours) is where the threshold piece of teak meets the fiberglass. The screws holding it in place may have been poorly caulked allowing water to enter that area (our companionway piece was cracked). It seeps down and can begin to cause dryrot. The third, is if you have any instruments on the coaming of your cabin. Water can get in through there, if it seeped down that far, you have a bigger problem than you probably wanted. The Pint you mentioned is a hell of a lot.

The cure, Swiss Cheese. Its not fun and will take a lot of work. You will need to drill the area into a piece of swiss cheese, a 1/4 inch drill bit with holes every half inch. Then let it dry out (3-4 months, dehumidifiers, warm climate, etc) you will probably want to find someplace indoors. Once its dry, you will need to fill it with a fiberglass epoxy and some filling compound. (microballoons works best for something like this) then sand and paint.

What I described above is the most drastic in some cases Git Rot may be the answer. At any rate you want to dry the area out and fill it with something that will both keep it sealed and reinforced. HOWEVER, don't take what I am saying as Gospel!!! Listen to some of the other members comments, then find someone with a moisture meter and put in on the coaming, under the sole and all through the area around the problem. See how bad it really is first. Then, track where it is coming from, then create your plan of attack.

Incidently, did you have a survey done on the boat prior to purchase?

dw
good luck
DW

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1ce23b3127cce9b043565af3d0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 06/10/2002 08:37:44

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 08:47:46

Hi Mike,

What Duane said about possible points where water can get in is correct. Another point(s) where you might get water in between the cockpit floor and the hull liner under the cockpit floor is the scuppers for the self bailing cockpit. The seal on one or both may not be effective, and water might enter there, then "puddle" in between.

Duane is right about the repair. The area needs to be thoroughly dried out and then filled. Then "plug" the leak.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Rollins
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 21:33:13

Duane:
Bill:

Thanks for all the tips. I may have over-estimated the amount of water. With the battery compartment wide open, and the power panel laid out where I was wiring the shore power to the new battery charger, I 'freaked out' when water started pouring over it all. And the water, while tinted brown, was more like really weak tea . . . clear but colored, if that makes sense. The hole that was leaking was right where the fiberglass curves to go aft. Another screw hole on the other side of the opening, and only an inch higher did not yield any water.

I really appreciate the tips on finding the leak, too. Now that you mention it, the threshold has been replaced with a piece of brass. And just where the floor meets the companionway fiberglass (where it curves to go up to the threshold) the original owner had installed a life-line bracket. It may be that when I was scrubbing out the boat, I got the water in the cockpit high enough to seep in if the bolts aren't adequately sealed.

No, I am ashamed to say, I did not get a survey. I did look at a C25 that had delamination in the cockpit. It was obviously mushy. This boat is very solid everywhere I checked. And I specifically checked the cockpit floor.

Maybe I'll get lucky and find the leak soon enough. Once I reseal everything you mentioned that may leak, should I still drill at least one 1/4 hole in the area to make sure it stops? I guess I could caulk in a piece of 1/4" tubing and run it to the bilge to keep an eye on it.

Thanks again for the tips. The previous owner gave me an unopened tube of boat caulk. Is there any brand in particular you guys would recommend?

Wish me luck, and thanks again for the comments,

Mike Rollins

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 01:06:01

Hi Mike and welcome: First things first. Do you have a digital camera ? If so takes a few pictures and let us have a look at the problem area. If not do you have a scanner ? It would realy help alot, you could even borrow a digital.
When the manufacturer or any one else makes a hole in the boat the innner walls of the hole should be sealed with Resin or a good sealing compound. Water can migrate between the core and glass for quite a distance at times. Winch mounts, cleats, stantions, instument holes ect. can all be a source of a leak. The cut outs in the side of the cockpit combings also can leak. The first thing to do is FIX THE LEAK. Drying out wont help if the leak is still there. Once the leak is fixed the drying out can be done. I dissagree with the swiss cheese aproach though. Yep you will need to make some holes but hopefully not to many and use of a heat lamp will do wonders it takes a little time either way. It may not be the floor at all. Drilling one small hole from inside the boat should reveal if it is. After finding and drying comes the cure for the delaminated or roten wood. I recomend you have a look at this web site for directions www.rotdocktor.com this product should do the trick. It will permanently turn the rot into hard stucture and can be done with minimal holes. Once we have more info on the area and leak we will be better able to help. DONT pannic or jump to conclutions without all the facts. Your problem should not delay you from sailing and will give you a chance to learn a few skills regarding repair.

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

andy p
1st Mate

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55 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 09:52:31

Sounds more like water between the liner and the deck. Wouldn't worry to much, just dry it out and try to find the hole - Probably in the wood work around the companion-way.

Edited by - on

Rollins
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2002 : 08:33:51

Doug:

Great idea. I have a digital camera. I'm going over to the lake on Thursday to do some work on the boat. I'll take some pics and post them this weekend. Thanks for the offer to take a look.

And thanks again to everyone's help.

Mike

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 16:21:30

I'd drill four more little holes--one under each corner under the companionway (drilling up from the quarterberth) and at at the back of the quarterberth, at each corner of the cockpit floor, to get ALL of the water out. The cockpit floor slopes toward the stern so that the cockpit drains. Therefore, the water inside is probably collecting toward the aft end of the liner, as well.

Take care to drill only through the inner liner--fiberglass can grab a drill bit and pull it much deeper than you planned on going! (Don't ask why I stress that point...) <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/13/2002 16:23:20

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Rollins
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2002 : 23:41:23

Forum:

Sorry I have been remiss in following up on this chain. Doug in Tacoma; I keep forgetting to take my digital camera over to the boat. Since the flood at the lake subsided, and I finally got my new boat in the water, I've been working on it or sailing it every free moment I get.

For now, I've been covering the whole boat with a tarp when I'm not in it, and the leak has stopped.

Duane, you had mentioned that I should check the companionway threshold. Sure enough, a previous owner had placed a pretty brass plate across the teak threshold, and attached it with screws (which are rusty). When I flex the piece of team under the threshold from inside the boat, the teak piece is cracked all the way across, and is a little soft. Would this let water in? You mentioned that yours was cracked. How did you remove it and replace it? Is there something besides teak that I can use to replace it? It seems like there is a lot of flex at this point where everyone puts their feet to enter the cabin, or to reach up the deck. I think this piece of teak is the culprit.

Thanks again to everyone in the forum for responding.

Mike Rollins
1989 C25 SR WK #5947

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 13:39:29

To remove that piece of teak you will need to take off the four pieces that run vertically. 2 inside and two out. Then the threshold piece should be able to come out. After drying the area out we made a new piece out of teak and actually epoxied it in place. Yes that could be the culprit.

dw

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