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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Need advice on Winged Keel vs CB??

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BAJAMAN
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/16/2006 : 22:36:06

Hello everyone! Great site!

Considering a 1995 250 WB and needed advice on winged keel or WB based on my intended uses.

USES: will not keep in water and will trailer to all sailing locales. I sail in California lakes, Lake Mead, Southern California coast with summer trips to Catalina Island. I sail with my 7 year old son and friends. Sometimes wife will tag along. When my second son reaches 4-5 years old he will also go along. I am 6' tall and weigh 275 lbs. I don't want a boat that is too tender. I like the room of the 250, both the cockpit and down below. I've looked at other trailerable sailboats and they are not as near as large in both areas.

Questions:

1. Is there any truth to bad weather helm on WB models? Is it true
for both winged keel and WB?
2. Performance characteristics of winged vs CB??
3. Tiller steering vs wheel??

Any other considerations/info you can provide is appreciated!

Thanks!!

Edited by - BAJAMAN on 07/16/2006 23:28:15

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2006 : 18:22:14

Bajaman,

I have a 250 WK at Lake Meade. It is the 2002 model and it has a tiller. I like the tiller over the wheel just because of the extra room. Mine is in a slip now because I do not have a trailer yet. I plan on buying a trailer this year sonmetime. What Kind of truck do you have? Can it pull the weight ~8000 lbs for WK. I went with the wing keel because I did not feel safe in the ocean in a WB boat. That is just my opinion. Do a search here and you will find lots about both boats. Remember it is easer to put in and take out a shallow wb vs a wk. Any other questions let me know.

Edited by - on

JJM
Navigator

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USA
170 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2006 : 18:29:27

IMHO - The WK has 5'5" headroom below and the WB has 4'8". That might make a difference for you at 6'...

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2006 : 18:53:45

Welcome to the forum Carlos! That's a pretty tough question you ask there. I'm sure you will get some interesting comments, for each model has its pluses and minus. Your planned uses should greatly help you make your decisions. If you do some searching in the forum archives using the search function you'll find plenty of discussions about the difference between the WK and WB.

Your right about the room in the 250, more than most trailerable boats it's size.

<b>Based on your post, I would look strongly at the WB</b>. But you should make it a point to try and get aboard both models and compare.

BTW Just so you don't think I'm playing favorites, I have a WK, that stays in the water 99.9% of the time. The only times shes not in the water is when I'm trailering to the coast.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 07/17/2006 19:05:04

raulpou
Navigator

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144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2006 : 20:47:47

One thing to consider is the ramps that you are going to be using and how often you will use them. As you know ramps can be a real crap shoot somtimes, so take that into consideration because a wing keel has more draft. AS for the room, there is no question that the wing keel has more headroom.

Do you plan on overnighting and using both beds? If so, the wing keel's aft berth is extremely more accessible than the WB.

If you plan on towing, the WK is heavier and it also sits higher so the wind will affect you as well. One note about towing, the WB and the WK are big boats when to comes to trailering and is not a task for mid size SUV's.

I am a fan of the water ballast for the simple fact that I sail and get into skinny water often and need a retractable "keel". I also like leaving the ballast at the dock and not trailering it. There are some real trades between the two and the best way is to find someone around you that is willing to show the boats and make up your mind by being on the boat not just looking at them on a trailer. I actually decided to buy a Catalina because of a member of this website who was kind enough to take me sailing and show me his boat (Frog0911).

BTW, this advice is worth every penny you paid for it! :)

Edited by - on

BAJAMAN
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2006 : 20:57:10

Thanks for the replies. I will continue searching archives for answers and comparisons. I would like to sail on both should the opportunity present itself. I also was considering the Seaward 25, but the room down below is too sparse. I know the WB is better suited to trailering.

I have plenty of pulling power -- 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 single rear wheel with Cummins diesel.

Edited by - BAJAMAN on 07/17/2006 20:58:10

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2006 : 22:14:57

Carlos,

If you would like you can see some pictures at my blog. I just started the blog and don't have them all on there yet. The address is www.redredwhinecat250.blogspot.com. If you are in Vegas let me know and you can come out for a sail.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2006 : 05:12:54

[url="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/trailercruiser.html"]Some additional reading[/url]

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BAJAMAN
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2006 : 17:59:39

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the info. and links. I would really like to view the launching of both models and sail them as well prior to making a decision. Not knowing the boats very well, is the only drawback or negative aspect about the winged keel the trailering and launching issues due to its height/draft? Other than that, the positives would be more headroom, less obtrusive access to rear berth, and stiffer (less tender) sailing characteristics. Am I close in my observations? Since I am a larger guy (6' 275lbs) I am wondering if the WB would be too tender?

Thanks for your responses!!

Edited by - on

raulpou
Navigator

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144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2006 : 20:21:39

AS for the tenderness of one over the other, I don't know. I know that my WB is extremely stable when encountering a crosswake or any type of wake. I attribute this to the ballast being spread over the entire boat and lateral movements force that weight mass to be moved. I do not know the difference of ballasts between the two but I know this makes a big difference.

From my experience, my wb compared to others (hunters both the 24 WB and the new 25 fixed keel) is more stable and I attribute it to the weight being spread out as opposed to be concentrated in the middle. The difference between our boats and the hunters is night and day!

My suggestion is to notice this when walking around both of them. Try to notice their movement while walking around the boat.

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BAJAMAN
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2006 : 11:37:37

raulpou,
that is precisely what I would like to do - walk around them and see how they move. Now I just need to find someone in Southern California that is will to let me do this!! As stated, it would be nice to sail them both for comparison. I will continue my search and maybe I will find them form sale and the sellers would be willing to accomodate my requests for sea trials.

Any body out there willing to take me on a sea trial???!!! Lunch is on me!!!

Thanks

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2006 : 22:40:14

Baja,

My two cents worth. . .

I own a WB w/wheel and have sailed a WK w/tiller numerous times (rented in San Diego). It all comes down to how you'll use it most. My observations:

WB: easy to trailer/launch (a factor for me because I 'dry-slip' and trailer several times a year), shallow draft (I sail the TX coast at times, which can be very thin when anchoring), wheel steering (more cockpit room when under way and easier for my kids to handle when they were younger), quick to heel to 10-15 degrees but then stiffens nicely and is hard to push past 15 degrees, more stable longitudinally (in cossing wakes and head seas), less freeboard (so she's less affected by crosswinds)

WK pluses: much more headroom and access to rear berth (though I primarily day-sail so headroom is not usually a factor), tiller (much better feel for the boat and what she's doing), heels a little less quickly than the WB but seems to want to keep going past 15 degrees without stiffening (until around 20-22 degrees), porpoises (hobby-horses) in a wake or head sea

They are both FUN boats to sail, good for a small family. I think if you're going to spend a lot of nights on her AND not trailer, the WK may be more suitable. If you're trailering regularly, the WB would be the way to go regardless of how often you overnight on her.

Just my opinion. If you want to sail a WK, 'SeaForth' in San Diego has some for day rentals.

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