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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Proper Winch Use

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/31/2006 : 12:35:26

I was wondering if anyone could offer some words of wisdom concerning how to use a winch without the line crossing and binding? I have single speed Barlow winches for my jib sheets and inevitably when I use them the line crosses over itself on the winch and I am left with a chore to relese them as they are under load. Has anyone developed a procedure they use which helps avoid this problem? I raised my cam cleats on spacers to reduce the angle of the sheet as it leaves the winch but that has not helped.

Joe Wergers
Utopia
Fleet 7/Oceanside, CA
78 C25 FK/SR #381

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:02:02

Joe,

In order to prevent overrides on the winch, the line entering the winch from the jib sheet block must be below the first wrap on the drum and the tail exiting the drum must be higher than the last wrap. Additionally, keep a little tension on the tail to prevent the wraps from loosening when paying the sheet out.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:02:23

Joe, Its not the angle leaving the winch that is the problem, Its the angle coming into the winch, you need 8 deg. of angle. On our boat we have added another low lead car on the track right before the winch to get the right angle. You could also install a bungee cord to hold the line down, or raise the winch by using some teak pads. This will insure that you will not get an "override" on the winch.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:18:19

Expanding on Don's and CS's advice, I also have cam cleats for the sheets, on the coamings, but without any fairleads on top, so the sheet is completely free when not cleated. I keep the sheet out of the cleat and pull slightly upward on it (tailing) while winching in or paying the sheet out. Only when I have the trim I want do I put the line in the cleat--in my case by hooking it under the horn cleat (to keep it low for the cam) before snapping it into the cam. To trim in or out, I uncleat and unhook.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:22:22

Then, using Justin's recent photo as a reference, it appears the rear winch is more prone to "overiding" as it sets lower and the front winch appears to have a marginal entry angle. This angle will become even more of a problem as the car is moved forward. I am thinking a winch pad may be the ticket. I am not sure how a bungee cord would overcome the tension of the sheet if it is under load?

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:40:51

Joe, In the photo, get a low lead car and add it to the aft part of the track as far back as possible. The rear winches are used for the spinnaker sheets. Wrap the winch three times.

The angle of the sheet exiting the winch should not be the problem, most overrides come from the sheet at the bottom of the winch going over the next rap, causing a twist in the line. Winch risers are far cheaper than another car, but you might end up with the same problem time to time.

Most overrides happen when the sheet is slack, ( just tacking and the sail is outside of the lifelines) so the bungee cord will keep the line down on the deck, by the time the sheet is has enough tension on it, the raps should be on the winch correctly. Also using a small sheet might help out keep enough raps on the winch.

Once the winch and sheet are loaded up, and you have put the line in the cleat it should be easy to let it out or bring the sheet in. We always have a tailer and a grinder. When the sheet is released on a tack the sheet is taken out of the cleat, and held by hand, the bow comes over and the sheet is raised directly above the winch pulling strait up.

There are many different ways to rig the boat for the best performance, and all of them are good ways of getting the job done. We race the boat so its important to us to be able to release the sheet with out a problem, and it not getting caught up on anything. This is one of the reasons we still use the jam cleats, they are mounted on the deck, and Catalina was nice enough to raise these with a built in fiberglass riser.

Go out and play with the sheets to see what works best for you.

EDIT: I did not notice that the track is so far lower than the winch, this might cause a problem if the car is added on the track. The Capri 25's deck is flat so we have just added a low lead car. Let me add that the new Scheafer low lead cars do NOT fit the 1" T-track that Catalina used. There is also a difference in the mounting holes. I found this out after spending over 150.00 per car.

Edited by - Ericson33 on 07/31/2006 15:51:53

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 16:50:39

Thanks all for the responses. I seem to have the most problem when the lines are more slack as when first letting out he furler so I can see how these angles come into play. Luckily I am only using the furling headsail right now and have an extra set of cars available to experiment with. I will try it again this weekend while keeping a wary eye on the angles of approach and exit.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 17:13:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 I seem to have the most problem when the lines are more slack as when first letting out the furler...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When unfurling my headsail, I initially will only put one wrap around the winch and haul in the sheet until I get resistance (no slack in the line). I then add wraps as needed, depending on conditions, then fine tune the trim either by hand or winch handle.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 20:01:41

I use high lead genoa cars to get the right lead angle to my winches

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 09:51:58

Joe, I've found that, if I put 3 wraps on the winch, the line will override itself. If I put 2 wraps on the winch, it won't. When tacking, I put 2 wraps on the winch, sheet it in, and then put an extra wrap on it before I cleat it.

The lead angle when the line is slack is different from the lead angle when it is under tension, and I never found a lead angle that reliably solved the problem, but, after I started putting only two wraps on the winch, I never had the problem again.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 20:14:07

IMHO: Having a slack line around the winch is a recipe for a wrap.
I'll sheet in as much as possible by during the tack (as the bow is coming around) before taking any wraps on the winch.

My winches are mounted on 'angled' teak winch bases (commonly available) which helps keep tendencies to wrap-over down. The clamcleats are also on 'wedges' which gives them a matching angle to the winch.

Edited by - on

Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 22:18:17

Joe you will get crossing and binding on a winch if you start with too many wraps on the winch. Start with no more than 2 wraps; one may be all you need. Then when this slips due to the load add another turn over the winch handle and tighten as desired. If this starts to slip add another turn.

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