Association Forum - Broken Swing Keel Hanger Bolt!

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Broken Swing Keel Hanger Bolt!

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

gbeardjr
Navigator

Member Avatar

USA
101 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/06/2006 : 20:12:04

Hello,

I was swimming under my bolt today and discovered one of the four bolts that hold the keel on is broken off. Anyone else have experience with repairing something like this? I can buy new bolts cheap online for $16.00 but how can I get the old one out?

Regards,

There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't

Edited by - on

mashedcat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2006 : 21:12:37

I had the same problem. My boat was on the trailer when i found the broken bolt. I found a machine shop that was willing to remove it. I would have done it, but dont have the right stuff for removing bolts. As i recall it cost me about $100 and took the machinist close to a day to remove it. He told me it was a very tedious process, because he had to start small and keep increasing the size of bit he used until he had it almost to the threads. Then he had to clean out the threads themselves with a tap. I believe he said that the stainless is 316 which is very hard. Good luck

Edited by - on

gbeardjr
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2006 : 21:29:02

So you took the hole boat to a machine shop? Were they able to access the bolt while on the trailer

Edited by - on

mashedcat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2006 : 21:35:03

Yes: to all

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2006 : 21:45:03

It also depends on where to bolt is broke off. If you remove the keel and hinge/hangers, there may be enough stiking out to grab onto. If not, then do your self a favor and buy a good set of bits from a machine shop supply store.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2006 : 22:17:14

"buy a good set of bits from a machine shop supply store."

If you're not skilled with a drillmotor... find somebody who is. If things go wrong with the drill-out procedure you're really in trouble.

Left handed bits are a good option here.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2006 : 23:38:58

Repair by removing the two hangers and lowering the keel sounds like a good procedure and it would also give you a chance to evaluate the 3 other bolts. You could also determine the depth you have to drill as not to drill so deep as to create an other project. You hope the other bolts are easily removed to let you repair and replace, torque and seal the new bolts. It's a chance to inspect the pin and other keel hardware too.
Practice drilling SS, pick the drill and the speed to drill right down the center and don't break off the easy-out. Just some thoughts before you decide what process to follow. Hope all works out.

Edited by - on

Cate
Navigator

Members Avatar

199 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2006 : 09:20:50

There is a tech tip about repairing keel bolts available here:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/tt004.asp

From what I can gather from one of the drawings, accessing the keel bolts from the inside and replacing the castings is also an option.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2006 : 09:32:58

By all means try getting the broken bolt out as described above. However, if it won't come out without damaging the female threads in the hull, there is a factory specified procedure for replacing the threads. I haven't done it on a C-25 (there goes any credibility this post might have had

), but it looks real straight forward and easy to me. I'd put the tipping point (between the two procedures) at around $100 to $150. Before getting too deep into surgically extracting a really stubborn bolt, I suggest you contact Catalina Yachts for a price quote on the parts (they're cheap) and a printed copy of the installation instructions (they're free).

A short version goes like this. Get access to the bilge directly above the offending fastener (may involve cutting an access opening in cabin sole depending on which side, and what model interior). Grind down into the top of the huge lump of fiberglass surounding the broken bolt. Doing this will expose a large flat metal 'nail head'. While one person heats the flat metal surface with a really big soldering iron from the top, another person drives the threaded sleeve up from under the boat with a hammer and punch. Once the old part is removed, use a grinder and drill to clean up the surface and hole so the new part fits right. With a waxed threaded rod in the new threads to seal them (and to pull down with), install the new part with epoxy. If you anticipate having any trouble getting the new part to pull down all the way while the epoxy clock is ticking, be ready to pull it down from under the boat with all-thread, nut, washer, and a drilled scrap of 2x4. Relaminate new fiberglass over the 'nail head' where it was ground away. If an access opening was cut in cabin sole, convert the rectangular cutout into a removable cover and reattach with your choice of nautical looking hardware (or gravity

).

-- Leon Sisson

P.S.
As noted by Cate below, I'm describing replacing this part (which is what your bolt broke off in):
<center>

</center>
(Edited to add illustration.)

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 09/07/2006 14:45:27

Cate
Navigator

Members Avatar

199 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2006 : 13:59:14

CD sells this part and says grinding out the current bolt holder and re-tapping is dangerous and may result in loss of the keel.
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=294

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2006 : 14:44:30

If done in the water!!!!

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2006 : 15:01:38

Actually what they say is you can not drill out for an "oversize" bolt. Drilling out and tapping to the original size should not be dangerous.

Edited by - on

gbeardjr
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2006 : 21:19:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 Actually what they say is you can not drill out for an "oversize" bolt. Drilling out and tapping to the original size should not be dangerous.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah I don't want to drill out and put new threads in hopefullt I can drill a small hole in the bolt and use an easy out to get it out

Edited by - on

mashedcat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2006 : 01:04:01

The guy who did mine in the machine shop said that it was impossible to get an easy out in and put enough torque on it to turn out the broken piece. Thats why he had to use graduating bit sizes till he got it cleaned out just shy of the threads, then he cleaned out the threads by re tapping them. He said even then it was a real chore. But if you can get it out with an easy out, more power to you. I'll be curious to know how it goes.

Edited by - on

mashedcat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2006 : 01:06:04

ps, he also said he had to stablize the drill going in so that it went in straight and didnt bang up the sides. Also, he started with the easy out method.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2006 : 09:33:27

This is not a situation where you can use heat to assist so what ever sized the bolt will probably be bad enough to shatter the more brittle ez-out; high probability of ez-out failure in this situation.

Edited by - on

ed_spengeman
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
98 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2006 : 12:16:38

How is it best to prepare to take out the bolts and the cable eye? Clean off excess paint. Try to get room for socket to fit. Maybe grind down perifery of socke so it fits better. Anythin else?-heat wd-40..

Edited by - on

mashedcat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2006 : 19:38:51

I think I'm the lazy type. by this point in my life I've learned what jobs i can accomplish and which take more sophisticated tools and exprience than I have. I cant count the times that I started what i thought should be an easy job and ended up buying tools that I would never use again and that weren't made for the job at hand, then ended up after two or three days of total frustration taking the job to the person i should have done in the first place. In the case of this particular job, I looked at it and decided that it was exactly one of those other hundred times.
But let us know if you're successful.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2006 : 21:11:25

>"Try to get room for socket to fit"

I wouldn't be surprised if that's how the bolt head got broken. A socket binding on the side of the hinge recess puts tremendous side-stress on the bolt.

I spent some 'quality time' lying under my boat with a dremel tool and a small burr to get enough clearance for a thin-wall socket to fit. Once the fit of the socket was taken care of, the bolts came out easily. Cause of the problem seems to be due to sloppy alignment/installation of the fiberglassed in 'nuts'.

Edited by - on

gbeardjr
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2006 : 21:56:51

Good news. I was able to get the boat on the trailer. Upon inspection the three remaining bolts are not seized and turn easily. I think once I drop the Hangar using the all thread method I will be able to twist out the stub that is left.

[URL=http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brokekeelhangarboltew4.jpg]

[/URL]

Edited by - on

mashedcat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 00:15:45

Good on ya mate

Edited by - on

gbeardjr
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 15:13:50

I got it out!! The easyout broke right away but not before the bolt made a 3/4 turn. I was thin able to ever so slowly get the bolt out with pliers.

WooHoo!!!

Edited by - on

gbeardjr
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 15:14:58

I got it out!! The easyout broke right away but not before the bolt made a 3/4 turn. I was thin able to ever so slowly get the bolt out with pliers.

WooHoo!!!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 16:30:15

Luck was definately on your side, Garnett...Good job!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 19:44:26

Those threads are stainless on stainless so be sure to use some thread coating when you put things back together.

CD provides loctite in their keel hanger kit.

Edited by - on

gbeardjr
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 20:31:54

I have a new set of boats coming from catalinadirect. The new bolts come with loc-tite and some sort of primer. They are scheduled to be here Wednesday. I replaced the cable today too. If all goes well I'll be saling by this weekend!

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.